AIBU to think the NHS should not be recommending hysterectomy to young girls

[pisacake]

NHS handout for 'young trans people in the UK'

www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/assets/media/17-15-02-A-Guide-For-Young-People.pdf

'Surgical Options'

"Hysterectomy
This surgery involves the removal of the interior female sexual organs. This prevents the risk of cancer and forever prevents periods or risk of pregnancy"

Sounds awesome doesn't it!

Here's the NHS advice on taking drugs

"Hormone Blockers
If blockers (or anti-androgens) are taken when younger, the effects from puberty are likely not to occur and a more passable body is likely to result."

Yes, that's right kids you can just skip puberty, and be Peter Pan. It's a brave new world where you are stuck with a micropenis for the rest of your life.

And what if your stupid parents don't agree?

"If you are under 16 a lot will depend on gaining the full support from your parents. In other countries hormone blockers can be given to younger transsexual people which will prevent the onset of unwanted secondary sex characteristics. This may mean that you look further than the UK for medical intervention. It would be undesirable to buy hormones over the internet without fully knowing what you are buying."

That's right kids! You can suppress those pesky unwanted secondary sex characteristics' by buying hormones on teh internetz. Yay NHS! Yay Aneurin Bevan!

And boys, thinking of becoming girls, it's NOTHING to worry about, you can chop off your balls and turn your dick inside out, it's perfectly normal! It will even improve your health, everything is awesome!

""Orchidectomy is the removal of the testes. This operation means that testosterone will no longer be naturally produced in the body and therefore you can do without your testosterone blocker. In general, the lower the dose of any drug the lower the health risks you will have. "

"Technology for SRS is quite advanced and with good surgery even gynaecologists are said to find it hard to distinguish a constructed vagina from a natal one. "

A constructed vagina huh? You mean like a sex toy? www.lovehoney.co.uk/sex-toys/male-sex-toys/pocket-vaginas/ I hear they are pretty realistic too.

This is NHS advice, albeit I don't think any doctor actually reviews this stuff before they print it, there seems to be an attitude that it would be transphobic to have any of this written by mainstream medics, so let's just let a self-selecting group of people with loud voices do it. (Like the group Mermaids, who are recommended in the handout, and who basically consist of one woman who took her son to Thailand at 16 to have 'bottom surgery'.)

And don't think all these pamphlets and websites telling you that hysterectomy and puberty blocking are awesome have no effect on kids. Nope, there is a MASSIVE increase in kids identifying as trans.

Here's an article today from St Albans www.hertsad.co.uk/news/increase-in-trans-support-is-offered-as-child-gender-fluidity-rises-in-st-albans-district-1-5264057

Lots and lots of girls deciding they are boys because "He wouldn’t wear knickers and refused to play with girls’ toys" and the NHS happily supporting that. (That biologically female child is seven-years-old, and per the NHS handout above you will get GREAT results, by taking puberty blockers follow by testosterone, which "offers very effective masculinisation for FTMs". Apparently said child is "adamant he will grow up and get married and be the husband and daddy and he will have a wife". )

There is obviously no meaningful consent possible by pre-pubescent child to puberty blocking, because they have no real conception of what puberty hormones would do to their body AND brain. But apparently there is no concern whatsoever about this, because EVERYTHING IS AWESOME when you're trans. So much better than being a boring old 'cis' female with periods and cancer and pregnancy and all those silly 'ciswoman' problems.

Thetoothyteeth

@elendon asides from the possible psychological and reproductive implications - does anyone know if there are general health risks around taking these drugs?

There aren’t enough children to do a study. The children who are taking them now, are the guinea pigs for a future study.

I'm always open minded but I don't understand why there are now so many teens that are trans and are certain they want to live their lives as the opposite sex. When I was in high school, none of my peers showed any inclination towards any of this and it's strange that it has become such a big thing now. Part of me wonders if any part of it is teenage attention seeking, like getting tattoos and piercings and mad hair colours, but just on a massive and irreversible level. I feel like a bitch even saying that but I just don't understand how so many children could think they were born in the wrong body.

Just read the posts by user 'Tammy' - heartbreaking

@datun exactly as i and another poster thought then. None of my kids have come to me wanting to be trans so i don't know how it feels to be a parent in this position, but don't the parents worry about the side effects of the drugs? I really don't understand - it's a form of abuse surely!

Melony6

There’s a lot of muddying of the waters around this issue. Because most of the data is coming from people who transitioned after puberty.

Women very rarely have genital surgery. It’s mostly men.

The penis is inverted and part of the material remains sexually sensitive.

But, in the case of children who have taken puberty blockers, the penis doesn’t develop. So there is not enough material.

The trans-poster child, Jazz Jennings, is 17, has never had an orgasm, and there’s not enough material to create a neo vagina. So their sexual function as an adult is wholly compromised.

He has the face of a girl, a feminised body, and the genitals of a prepubescent boy.

And he is depressed. But nonetheless he is starring in a reality TV show as it is considered entertainment.

Ffs.

Oh fuck off. I'm so close to leaving MN over this. Some of you are actually fucking vile.

Bye.

No they can't reach orgasm in the physiological sense because they do not have the innate sexual equipment to do so. It's basically genital mutilation. They may get pleasure from touch and being intimate.

that but I just don't understand how so many children could think they were born in the wrong body.

See the opening post and what is being disseminated in schools.

@datun this is so depressing - the whole thing.

I wonder will they come up with a way to find replacement tissues. Probably they will because £££$$$$ in it for them. Shame female issues like fgm reconstructive surgery don't get such attention - particularly in England.

I can't help thinking that it is insane to allow kids to be able to decide something this fundamental and permanent, but don't think they're old enough to drink, smoke or vote. None of which are anything like as permanent.

Parents are emotionally blackmailed into believing their child will kill themself if they don't go along with treatment. If parents opt for a 'wait and see' approach, there is no further counselling or MH support available.

Thetoothyteeth

It’s horrendous. And I’m furious. Gender dysphoria in children should be taken exceptionally seriously. We should have research, treatment, support groups.

For girls, particularly, it can be a sign of sexual trauma. Or a desire to evade the ‘feminine’ role. All shored up by the porn culture that our children are now exposed to.

But there is another agenda going on that is wiping the floor with our children.

For instance, some children will suffer from anorexia, right? Would most people think it was a good idea to give positive lessons about it? About how it is somehow an authentic part of them, that they need to explore?

You might raise it in one PSHE lesson. You might train teachers to keep an eye open. You don’t celebrate it, and write 30 page leaflets that frame it in such a way for every child in the class to wonder whether or not they might be anorexic. Particularly, if one of the symptoms is that sometimes you don’t feel hungry. It’s a psychological illness. Not a lifestyle choice.

Nancy91
One reason it's so prevalent in schools is because the DfE actively promote some of these transgender campaigning organisations. Schools are told to contact GIREs, Mermaids etc for advice about policy and practice.
But when you look at the training materials they offer you see the same type of 'misinformation' as in the NHS leaflet. Adults being trained in the 'positive benefits of early intervention' in terms of kids taking drugs to stop puberty. Comments / statistics about suicide used which breach the Samaritan's guidelines about reporting suicide.
Some organisations also offer mentoring to transgender children. No school that I know of would ever allow mentoring by adults for this type of 'lifestyle' choice. Mentoring for learning, mentoring to encourage 'disadvantaged / underachieving young people to aspire higher, mentoring for those young people without a responsible adult in their lives - yes. But mentoring for confused young people uncertain about their sex? Professional counselling, yes. CAMHS referral, yes. A sympathetic and understanding response from adults in the school - yes. But volunteer 'mentors' dabbling in this as yet poorly understood explosion of gender non conforming children? Absolutely not!

But these groups have been going around offering their training to teachers (and other groups) and of course, until you actually learn about this stuff few of us are in a position to challenge their statistics. etc.
And when you look at their divisive rhetoric about parents - that should make every parent's hair stand on end as parents are routinely dismissed and actively undermined, especially if they are anything other than 100% supportive. Just at a time when our children are so vulnerable.
It is truly frightening.

When women have their bladders removed they are informed that they will no longer orgasm because removal of the female bladder is done purely because of cancer. Part of the vaginal wall is removed. The same applies to women who have had cervical cancer that has spread. Thankfully these types of cancer are rare.

Male to females still have their prostate and this will give them pleasure via anal sex. However, puberty blockers and HRT will mean the prostate will not grow. Removal of the prostate will lead to bladder incontinence.

@datun couldn't agree more. I think parents need to keep a closer eye than ever now on schooling and friends - no such thing as sending them in for lessons and play anymore. You have to actively find out for your own children what information they are being exposed to and what policies are in place.
Frankly I think it's terrifying. But I know lots of parents think different so I think at this point in time all you can do is actively maintain your individual stance.

I was just posting about this earlier.

I have endometriosis. In my 20s I begged for a hysterectomy, given the pain I was in and the fact I was unlikely to ever be able to conceive. It was always refused.

Instead I was put on the same drugs being used as puberty blockers. I find it staggering that these are spoken of in such light terms as that drug destroyed my longterm health, my career and very nearly my marriage, and certainly had a shocking impact on my mental health. How anyone can think that a drug that basically tells your brain to turn off your sex hormones is a good idea for children is completely beyond me. This is child abuse.

@tammy i read your posts

I have said this many tomes on these threads.

When I was 13 and started my periods I was horrified. I hated my body, hated my periods, was a stereotypical “tomboy”.

Had all this been about then then I would have grasped at it like a life raft. An explanation as to why I felt so confused in my body! Plus it means I am special and different! I knew I was special! This is it - I’m a boy!

As it was I lived with it until the grand old age of 14and three quarters when I “grew into” my body and suddenly realised that I liked being me, liked being female, liked the fact that I was attractive to boys, found boys attractive and basically lived happily ever after.

If I had become a boy at 13 then my children would not exist. My (actually pretty great) life would not exist.

you can chop off your balls and turn your dick inside out,

Myth. Actually both the penis and testes are removed and the new vagina is constructed out of the skin from the testes.

I don't understand why there are now so many teens that are trans and are certain they want to live their lives as the opposite sex

It's a phase for the vast majority I believe.

Just like the girls at my school who came out as lesbians in the 1990s but are all married to men now.

Myth?

"The standard procedure for vaginoplasty involves creating a cutaneous neovagina with inverted penis and scrotum skin. The goal is to make the genital complex as female as possible from an anatomical, aesthetic and functional point of view.

The reconstructed vagina’s size will vary depending upon three characteristics of the transsexual patient: the size of their penis, the elasticity of their skin and their height (which determines the size of the cavity to house the new vagina). Furthermore, Dr. Mañero and his team use the skin of the scrotum to increase the depth of the vagina, so the amount and type thereof are also important in establishing this depth."

www.imclinic.com/en/crs-vaginoplasty/

Sorry, just to add before anyone flames me, obviously I know being gay or trans is not a phase for everyone.

It depends on the surgeon whether penile sheath or testicular skin is used. Neither shrink or expand post removal. The internal sheath is a patchwork of skin.

You cannot use the vagina to reconstruct a penis, despite the organ's ability to expand and contract.

Why can't the information be more balanced?

Something along the lines of "if there is sufficient skin, it is usually possible to create a "neo-vagina" after removal of the penis and testes. Many transwomen are pleased with the results of this surgery and cosmetic advances are being made all the time. However, as with any surgery, complications can occur, including hair re-growth inside the neo-vagina and infections. This surgery is not reversible so should not be undertaken without full counselling."

What could be the possible harm in mentioning the downsides?

ProudAS hormone blockers are awful - have huge side effects, and - as poor Jazz Jennings has discovered - even for male children who do eventually to grow up to be adults who want SRS, they are a terrible idea, as they leave them with tiny ungrown genitals, no sex drive, and not even enough tissue for the operation.