To ask WWYD in this school situation

[Junglejupiter]

I really need help (and maybe a reality check) so prepared to hear all opinions but please be kind because I'm upset about this as it is

DD has been having trouble with a girl at school since she started. I'm not going to bore you with a list of incidents but this girl has taken a dislike to my DD and won't allow her to join in play with any other girls that she see fit. I've spoken to the school about this and they have spoken to my DD about things she can do if she finds herself with no one to play with.

A couple of weeks ago, my DD came home very upset as this girl had spat at her. I went in to speak to the HT as normal teacher was away that day and it was very much brushed off as "that's not acceptable, we will keep an eye on it". My DD still comes home and says she's been playing on her own because this girl excludes her.

I've tried inviting friends round to tea to get my DD intergrating with another group but my DD is finding it really hard. She comes home and tells me that this girl is mean to her - tells her to "go away" "you can't play with us" "get off that you can't play on that" etc.

Today j had a voicemail from the HT saying that my DD has been involved in an incident where she has hit this girl, that she's missed her playtime and can I have a word with her because it's not acceptable to be doing that. I've tried ringing the HT back (10 mins later) to be told that she's unavailable to speak to me.

Now don't get me wrong - hitting is wrong and she will be punished at home accordingly but part of me wants to scream and shout that this is a reaction to all what's been going on with her since she started school with this girl. Days of her coming home upset. She's quite a shy girl and hitting is totally out of character for her.

Please give me advice - I'm in tears here, partly because I'm frustrated I've got to wait till 3.15pm to speak to a teacher and secondly because I'm so sad that this has happened

the HT sounds like a pathetic piece of crap.... don't let them walk over you OP.. there is good sound advise on here... stay strong and stick with this for your DD's sake too.. remember she's the one sat in school enduring this crap from these other kids ..

the can exclude your DD.. that's IT .. you can see where the other kid get's her dominate character from though OP.. yes

I would log this conversation too. The mother should NOT be intimidating you like this.

• dominant .. even

It sounds like the HT is scared of the mum, who is also a bully. Fuck that OP change schools.

OP .
Are there other schools in your area that would take your dd on?

Having dealt with issue like this before as a teacher this is what I suggest you do:

• write down all of the incidents that have happened so far. Teachers need evidence to act. Quite often bullies are sneaky and choose to bully out of the sight of teachers. Presenting a factual list of abuses will be powerful.

• apologise straight off for the biting. It is always wrong to bite/ hit no matter what the justification. If you get the out of the way first then the other parent does not have a leg to stand on. You are the reasonable one and the one who has been putting up with the long term emotional abuse to your DD.

• be as calm and as reasonable as possible. You want to come off as the reasonable parent. School will be much more likely to engage with you.

School will want to help sort this out. But often our hands are tied by lack of evidence. Don’t let her drive the narrative. And don’t let her trick you into attacking her or her DD by riling you up.

Lastly, this might sound manipulative, do cry. Show them how much this has affected your family.

Op you’ve had loads of good advice on this thread. MN at its best . I feel so sorry for your dd. I’m a mum and a TA. Having dealt with various HTs over the years, this one is a familiar type. She’s a bully herself and basically will run her school like a dictator. I’d have lost my temper when she said there was no bullying in Foundation. That is such absolute fucking bullshit. You see it in every playground in the country. I couldn’t leave my child in a school where the head said that.
This school doesn’t sound like a nurturing environment. I can’t believe how they deal with children who say they have no one to play with. Is it possible to move your dd?

I'm really sorry but your child bit and hit another child and your response is to complain about the Headteacher?!?!

I'm also surprised by the responses on here.

At the moment you really only have your daughters versions of events. Frankly if they are regularly still playing together then your calls of bullying aren't going to be taken seriously. Physical bullying (whether in response or not) quite rightly should be. Sort out the physical stuff first then you can get to the other stuff.

I'd be pointing out to my child that any verbal/ friendship issues are going to be hard to sort if she hits the girl. I'd be talking about what we can and can't do if people make us unhappy by what they do to us. I'd be talking about friends not being friends if they deliberately excluding you.

I'd not be complaining about a Headteacher just because so far they don't have any evidence of anything other than a child hit/bit another child

Ops child did not bite.
However, constant drip drip of verbal bullying is far worse than a one off physical retaliation.

toffee no. My DD hit the girl that has been bulling her for weeks. It was only the mother that said she had bitten, but the school have said that my DD only hit the girl. The mother is now on a rampage to I assume, get my DD excluded.

Also if you had read my previous posts you would see that I have been into the school on more than one occasions to report my DD being spat at and being excluded by this girl.

The mother sounds a right horror.
Its no wonder the child's acting the way she is.
Oh she'll be sorry in 5-10 years when there's a knock on the door to tell her that her child has been arrested for a very serious crime. Some people only learn the hard way.

She asked me if I was aware that my DD had bitten her DD on the cheek. I said I was aware

Ops child did bite, according to the OPs report of the exchange above.

I disagree over whether one form of bullying is worse than another. Physical bullying is easily evidenced verbal bullying much harder, especially if to all intents and purposes the kids look like friends. Teachers are going to deal first and foremost with what they have evidence for, especially if The OPs DD has left marks on another child.

I would be very careful how I handled this. I would ask for it to be watched very carefully as the report I was getting home does not tally with the one I was getting from school and would be saying I would be talking to my daughter about the problems with physical retaliation how you shouldn't bite and push. I'd make it very clear that i wanted to work with the Headteacher on this and giving them the opportunity to prevent the problem escalating further. I'd be asking about when there is a need for them to interact and whether they can be given a bit of distance at school (sat as far apart at class and lunch). I'd be working closely with school because frankly your going to need them onside to sort it.

I am unsurprised by a Headteacher trying to end a meeting that was highly unproductive and clearly causing the OP distress in a very no blame manner. Verbal bullying was not going to be sorted there and then. The physical bullying should have been so it doesn't muddy the waters going forward.

The two are going to have all eyes on them for a while, especially if the head feels a complaint is going in. If they are playing together it is going to be noted. It's going to go against the OP version of events which could be presented as being in denying over their child's unpleasant behavior. The OPS child is going to have to be very careful not to respond physically but to consistently tell a teacher

Op

Come down on them hard, get angry, not upset. Fight you DD's corner. It is so clear that the teachers are not doing their job.

Write to your MP if you have to. Do not let them win, do not engage with the other mum at all. It would piss her off even more if you ignored her or told her to piss off and give her the finger

I am so angry on your behalf, can your DH help in the correspondence you're sending to the higher ups?

It was only the mother that said she had bitten, but the school have said that my DD only hit the girl

She asked me if I was aware that my DD had bitten her DD on the cheek. I said I was aware

My apologies if I got that wrong about the biting however it was what you posted.

Rest applies. I'd be working with the school not against it

Yes I've read it back and what I wrote was confusing.

What I meant to write was - the other mother asked me if I was aware that my DD had bitten her child on the cheek, I said I was aware that my DD had hit her child and I apologised for that.

I've just had an email from the secretary saying that the HT wonders if I am available to attend the school tomorrow for a meeting following on from my email.

Please be very careful. At the moment their biggest issue is your DD hitting and potentially biting the other child. You need to deal with the two issues seperately as much as possible. If you want them to take responsibility for dealing with whatever is going on generally you need to accept responsibility for dealing with the hitting and ( if the other mother has evidence) biting. Be aware you are absolutely not hearing the full story if you haven't heard about the biting and it has happened, and you will lose credibility especially if you are so busy pursuing your DD as the victim you can't deal with when she for whatever reason was the perpetrator.

My BIL was terribly bullied for years, from year 1 to 6 all from the same child. MIL AND FIL went in countless times and each time it was brushed under the carpet. The bully was a "golden child" parents did a lot for the school etc, the school would just not acknowledge it even though other parents complained aswell.
At the start of year my BIL snapped and fought back, he also got the upper hand. School rang my FIL immediately too attend school. The head teacher told FIL what had happened and said the line " he shouldn't hit back he needs to report this behaviour. He will be punished in school, what will you be doing at home to make sure this doesn't happen again?"
My FIL responded with a "sod all" and took my BIL home. The bully never bothered my BIL again, but it took years of bullying for it too stop. And no thanks to the School!

Please do not let them fob you off. Go higher than the head teacher.

I would absolutely remove my daughter from the school in this situation. You have asked repeatedly for the school to resolve things. Even if the school pull their fingers out and deal with it fairly (not sounding likely) you are always going to have to deal with this child, and the mother.

Your DD was anxious/worried to the point of wetting herself. It can't continue.

That is, of course, if you know your DD's version of events is accurate.

I have accepted responsibility for the hitting, I've apologised to the other mother. No one has mentioned the biting - it was only this morning when the mother approached me. It is supposedly on her cheek so I'm almost certain that if my DD had bit her then it would have been noticed and surely the other girl would have reported it at the time along with the hitting. The mother had a deranged look on her face this morning, she is almost certainly hell bent on removing my DD from the school and I see no reason why she wouldn't lie to do this. The issues are connected because my DD would not have hit the girl if she hadn't suffered weeks of verbal abuse and the occasion physical abuse - despite me attending the school to speak to the teacher and head about my concerns nothing has been done and now my DD has snapped. Consequently she is the one who has been punished and not the bully, but the school needs to see that if they don't address the bullying issue then this will happen again.

Junglejupiter this is a dreadful situation.

What do you think is going on with the other family? Why does the mother seem to hate you and your dd? What might have triggered all of this apart from the other mother clearly being unhinged? Do you have friends at the school, what do they say?

Hi Jungle

You sound a lot like me. I would get upset and probably blurb at a meeting like this.

Write down every incident you can remember your daughter has told you about.

Make sure your initial meeting is with the Head and that the other mother isn't there. Hopefully your husband will be able to go to. If you need to speak to your husband or for any other reason (maybe to compose yourself) ask for an adjournment.

I would also explain how your daughter has come home upset from school everyday since she started in reception. The hitting incident is due to your child being pushed too far. Nobody at school has listened to her. She has also wet herself out of fear.

Good luck remember you will probably only have one chance at getting your point across and to defend your child.

Take someone with you to make notes. Type them up and send a summary by email to the HT following the meeting

"Further to our meeting today, as I understand it the situation is as follows

...

As I mentioned the impact on DD is that she no longer feels welcome or safe in school. Her learning and general wellbeing is being affected by what I consider to be bullying by exclusion and (any other behaviours mentioned in the bullying policy) as described in School Name's bullying and behaviour policies

I consider her behaviour of 6/11/17 to be out of character and a sign of her anxiety and upset at the ongoing bullying. She has apologised for her behaviour.

We discussed possible actions and agreed the following

...

(If relevant "I did not agree to x and y" e.g. further punishment for DD if it has been discussed)

We agreed to meet again in x weeks to review progress. My availability w/c Date is as follows. Please confirm the date and time as soon as possible as I know the school and family calendars will get very busy closer to Christmas

I look forward to a positive resolution to this situation so that DD is able to feel safe and secure in School