To ask WWYD in this school situation

[Junglejupiter]

I really need help (and maybe a reality check) so prepared to hear all opinions but please be kind because I'm upset about this as it is

DD has been having trouble with a girl at school since she started. I'm not going to bore you with a list of incidents but this girl has taken a dislike to my DD and won't allow her to join in play with any other girls that she see fit. I've spoken to the school about this and they have spoken to my DD about things she can do if she finds herself with no one to play with.

A couple of weeks ago, my DD came home very upset as this girl had spat at her. I went in to speak to the HT as normal teacher was away that day and it was very much brushed off as "that's not acceptable, we will keep an eye on it". My DD still comes home and says she's been playing on her own because this girl excludes her.

I've tried inviting friends round to tea to get my DD intergrating with another group but my DD is finding it really hard. She comes home and tells me that this girl is mean to her - tells her to "go away" "you can't play with us" "get off that you can't play on that" etc.

Today j had a voicemail from the HT saying that my DD has been involved in an incident where she has hit this girl, that she's missed her playtime and can I have a word with her because it's not acceptable to be doing that. I've tried ringing the HT back (10 mins later) to be told that she's unavailable to speak to me.

Now don't get me wrong - hitting is wrong and she will be punished at home accordingly but part of me wants to scream and shout that this is a reaction to all what's been going on with her since she started school with this girl. Days of her coming home upset. She's quite a shy girl and hitting is totally out of character for her.

Please give me advice - I'm in tears here, partly because I'm frustrated I've got to wait till 3.15pm to speak to a teacher and secondly because I'm so sad that this has happened

Go round to the girls house and bring your husband and daughter. If the school won't sort it out then the families need to come up with a plan together.

I'm heart broken for her and you

She stood up for herself I'd tell her well done! You and her tried going through the proper way and nothing was done.

Go round to the girls house and bring your husband and daughter. If the school won't sort it out then the families need to come up with a plan together.

Please don't do this!! It's a school issue, they are solely responsible for your daughters welfare during school hours

The girls parents sound unreasonable and it won't get you anywhere

Definitely take your complaints to the highest level but please also move your DD to another school. She has barely started her school experience and is having to go through all this stress - you must move her so she can start afresh somewhere new and forget about this. Don’t even worry about leaving her supposed preschool friendship group behind. Neither of you should spend another 6 or 7 years at this school as it will always be tainted now.

OP, I think you need to change schools. I moved my children's schools when my daughter was in reception year and due to logistics also had to move her three brothers. It was due to a very similiar incident with ongoing bullying that was not dealt with (or even acknowledged) and then my child being in trouble for reaching the end of their tether. In hindsight I think the head was afraid of the other child's parents. Moving them was the best thing I ever did. The thing is even if this sad incident is resolved, you are still left with an awful headteacher when it comes to future incidents (and there is always something). Good luck and find a school that does acknowledge bullying exists.

I haven't read all of the thread but here's my advice.

I would do what the Mums at my DD and DS primary school would do and that would be to invite one by one each girl round for tea in that friendship group asap bar the bully obvs.

And also if you have the energy plan and invite the girls round for a christmas party with music, games and prizes / presents again without the bully. Also invite the mums in for some Christmas cheer and get them on side (just mention the bullying)

You can easily try and control this your own way. If for some reason the parents of these other girls dont allow them over for some reason (highly unlikely, as they prob have no idea whats going on) then you are fighting a losing battle.
You will have to put the work in and invite these girls over for tea / play dates on a one to one basis and it should eventully smooth itself out.

As for the bully, she wont seem so bad if your DD is creating stronger bonds with other friends.

(just don't* mention the bullying)

OP, we went through something similar with my DD. She was bullied by one girl. The school were not helpful, and I didn’t really know what to do, there was no Mumsnet to advise me!

I thought that just talking to the teacher and headteacher would solve it. I thought they would care about the children’s well-being. I was wrong, and it seemed that they only wanted children with no problems in the school. I was told by others that they weren’t helpful if children had any issues, whether it was bullying, SEN, disabilities etc. They seemed to want those children to move to another school.

The girl who bullied my DD was a golden child. She was happy and confident, the youngest of three happy and confident siblings. She came from a happy and respectable family - both parents were teachers. She was a good all rounder, good at schoolwork, sports and music. Most importantly of all, she was the daughter of one of the school governors, so there was absolutely no point in me complaining to the governors.

My DD didn’t want to move schools and leave her friends, but after year 6 she was so unhappy that we chose a secondary school in a different town. She made new friends and blossomed, and for the first time in her life, she loved going to school.

I hope things work out for your DD. Keep trying to sort it out with the school, but if you think they are just not going to change anything, find a new school. It might be the best option.

I think you should change school and report that HT to the highest authorities, for the sake of the other children. What a bitch!

The school are not dealing with this in the correct manner. Keeping an eye on things clearly isn't working otherwise there wouldn't more of these episodes happening. I would sit with the HT and tell him unless this matter is dealt with correctly and resolved, you will make an official complaint about him and the school.

Certainly do not punish your daughter...explain to her other ways of dealing with the situation. Teach her how to put on a tough exterior and how to respond to the cruel words this bully dishes out. Give her the tools to deal with what is being thrown at her.

Log every single event in a diary....log every single time you have spoken to the school....what their response was. And then complain. Then if you need to, you can move her to another school but I really think that should be a last resort.

Also, see if you have something like judo classes near you. I suggest judo as it is a defensive martial art and suits girls gentler nature. It will quickly give her confidence and discipline. My 10 year old son took it up about 3 years ago because he too was experiencing some bullying. In my case the school dealt with it very very promptly and each evening I received a call from his class teacher to check if all was well and to make sure my son hadn't had any problems that day. I decided judo would give him confidence and that knowledge that if anyone did get physical with him, he would not find himself being beaten up. He loves it, he goes twice a week and he now walks around head up and not looking at all frightened at school.

Oh OP, this thread really upsets me. Your DD has had enough.

I have had long experience dealing with schools and bullying. I tried the Complaint Route with my eldest, and the Move Schools Route with my middle child. I recommend Move Schools.

Two warnings for if you want to force the school to follow their policies:

It will take time to get the school to address it. In my eldest's case, it took 18 months!! Do you want your DD to be bullied for years ?

Be aware, if you force the school to look into and recognise your DD's bullying, the school will have to tell Bully's mother that Bully is a bully. Bully's Mother will not be delighted to hear this about their angel.
You write that there is currently some problems/ issues with DD's bully's mother. If she is actively involved in your school community, and you force the school to stop her daughter bullying your DD, that woman is going to have a burning hatred / resentment towards you. That resentment will follow you for years. (Three years on I am still encountering it from my eldest's bully's family).

To Engage With School To Have Bullying Addressed
(1) Do NOT waste your time and energy fighting a backwards-looking 'last year she said / she did, then DD told me etc etc' battle. As it has not been logged, it is largely irrelevant.

Great shame that your DD hit the bully. She must not do this again as it does not help her cause. Should the school bring this up again with you, you simply need to say that the hitting issue was addressed, you attended a meeting about it and your DD has not done it again. (If DD does it again, I would remove her from school ASAP as she is in a situation that she cannot handle).

(2) Like many others have written on this thread, don't phone/ discuss. Make a log using email - put it in writing. Much more effective.

(3) Be factual. You need to give the school the facts as they happen so that they believe what you / DD is saying. From what you have written, at present the school don't believe that DD is being bullied. They think DD is making trouble / being a bit precious, and hitting people. If DD complains to you every day, you need to be emailing the classroom teacher every day. Make her aware of what is going on.

A Preferable Course of Action

• Find a new school for DD.
• When you do, don't tell the new school that DD was bullied / had any problems in the playground. Just say that you are looking for a better learning environment. Say that she is friendly and happy, but a bit shy.
• Don't let DD build a 'victim' mentality. Don't tell her that she is moving schools because of the bully. Just tell her that you have found a really nice school, that is a better place for her to be.
• if you are going to change schools, don't tell DD about it until you have the new school ready to go. Uncertainty will cause anxiety in your DD.

My middle child blossomed in a new school.

Junglejupiter I am sorry this is so shit.

Please look into other schools and serioulsy consdier moving your dd. I ask her what she wants to do, try and empower her.

"The HT said it's rare for bullying to occur in reception when I asked for the bullying policy."

The head teacher sounds like a nobhead.

I do think you need a formal complaint because they are not taking your daughters situation seriously and not treating you properly either.

Even if you move your dd, I would put in a complaint.

Do not punish your dd. I am sure you will not.

"If they are fully insistent that my DD is not being bullied though am I losing the battle before I've begun?" There is a witness to all this, your dd. You need to record everything you know and go back to the school with a formal complaint while looking at other options. Life is too short for this shit.

Please do not go to the girls house. This could only escalate this.

If the school cannot deal with this then please, please, move her.

The government has gudelines on this even if the school cannot be bothered to have any www.gov.uk/government/publications/preventing-and-tackling-bullying

youarenotkiddingme that is so sad. I am so sorry. I hope your ds is in a in a different school now. I personally think parents should sue when schools fail children badly. But I know that can be more hassle on top of a terrible situation.

I can’t emphasise enough that you shouldn’t punish your DD for hitting the girl who is bullying her. It simply means that she can’t cope with what’s happening. As a child, I was bullied and I used to lash out and I was the only one ever punished. I don’t remember any of my bullies being punished. Looking back now, they deliberately provoked me so that I would get into trouble.

But the advice you’ve been given here on how she should handle it is great. Judo is a good idea, it will give her more confidence so that she will be able to handle herself without getting upset. Bullies feed on their victims being upset.

Hugs to your little girl.

This is fairly classic bullying often perpetrated by girls. I know a girl, now 11 who's done this since she was 3/4. She has had many a girl crying herself to sleep at night.

Definitely don't punish your dd for hitting the girl.

I would consider moving schools specifically to get away from this girl. I know someone who did exactly this unfortunately. Bullying like you describe is difficult to prove and when the victim lashes out, they look like the guilty party. However even if you do move, there may still be nasty girls like the one you describe.

As a child, I was bullied and I used to lash out and I was the only one ever punished. I don’t remember any of my bullies being punished. Looking back now, they deliberately provoked me so that I would get into trouble

yes this is what happened to my son. But as soon as the HT clocked what was happening, it all stopped from one day to the next. The difference between a decent HT and a rubbish one.

The headteacher is a spineless, ineffectual loser. I can't believe any head teacher would allow this to go on. You need to write to the chair of governors as soon as ppossible with a strongly worded letter about what has been going on. Furthermore, although it is sad, I think i would be moving your daughter to a different school. Can you have a ring round other local schools and see who has places? It does not sound like the school are ever going to deal with this in a satisfactory way and I would not want my children in a school like that for 7 years

Op I had a similar situation with DD, not bullied but un happy due to a few reasons in school, and we - she were not being listened too. The issues actually went on for a few years.

One day I thought to myself enough, I am not going to put up with this for one more day. I spoke to the teacher, then the head who was BRUTAL. Unyielding and BRUTAL.

So I too it further, wrote email and we sorted out the issue.
Was my email un emotional ? No, was it factual? Yes as much as it could be. The point was I didnt care anymore, years of pussing footing around and my DD was suffering, no one else but me and dd were going home worrying about her issues...the head wasn't - the other teachers were not.

In our case it wasn't bullying if It had been - straight in - instant answers. This wasn't hence it went on for a little bit longer. What I am trying to say is that - once you make that decision to yourself, you have set yourself that line you wont back down from, it makes things so much easier because it almost takes away the worry.

This could impact your DD emotions for ever,. I still remember going in late to my first day at reception, standing alone wondering which door to go into . I still hate going into new places! I feel shy and awkward. This is much worse. Good luck op.

Just an update for you all whilst I am on my break. I took my DD into school this morning and on my way back to the car was met by the mother of the girl. She asked me if I was aware that my DD had bitten her DD on the cheek. I said I was aware and I apologise for my DD biting but it was in reaction to a string of events which have unfortunately come to a head and is now hopefully being investigated. The mother then got very angry and said my DD "has issues" "has marked her DD" "She will be taking it further as the punishment to my DD was not acceptable in her eyes"
She then said she had a meeting with the HT and the "issue will be addressed". I went into work and just cried.

I personally think parents should sue when schools fail children badl

i agree actually, all dc have a right to an education and the school needs to make sure they get access to it - they cant if they are emotional on the floor from being bullied.

Our head is bloody spineless too.

Sorry autocorrect - hiting

Arrggh hitting

Jungle don't cry.

Don't cry - get angry.

Draw your line, your dd would absolutely not bite anyone this has been a prolonged campaign against your dd that no one has listened to or helped with, and now your dd is reacting and defending herself because no one at the school is.

Op after the meeting I would just take your dd out of school.

I'm worried that when the mother had a meeting with the HT they will further punish my DD