Sister using pronoun they...

[Merida83]

To describe my 7 week old dd!
AIBU to be pissed off and to insist she refers to my DD by female only pronouns.

She believes that gender is a social construct and as such does not wish to assign dd a gender, until she herself does so.
She may not have a gender, but she has the sex she was born with, which is female. So she is a she.

Sorry about the previous empty post.

I haven’t read anything transphobic on this thread people are saying that the baby’s is biologically a girl therefore is a she, there’s nothing wrong with that in the slightest.
That’s the truth of the matter. It’s not transphobic to say that a child was born female therefore is a girl. Gender is not the same.

What’s the OPs sister going to do, call her niece ‘they’or ‘it’ for 15 years until she’s decided what she wants to be called

Maybe if her name is a stereotypical girls name the sister won’t call her by that in case her niece thinks she should be a girl because of her name.

I’m not transphobic, or anything else phobic, in the slightest but this is a bit mad

Your sister is daft. Mumsnet isnt transphobic but it is one of the few places where open discussion of the issues around gender and how changes to law which will affect all women can happen. The reason it seems that was may well be because in real life people cant speak freely for fear of being called transphobic. The term TERF may well be used as abuse but I will accept it if it is given to me because I think women don't have penises and any who, apparently, do, need to leave womens services, sports and refuges to those with no penis.

You have to be accusing someone to be accusatory.

How very convenient.

It is an observation about what I have seen.

What have you seen? Spell it out in less vague terms, please.

You are taking this personally and it wasn't directed at you.

I am most definitely not taking this personally and I'm sure when you said 'transphobic' you were not directing it at me specifically. It was much more of a general 'tone policing' for the whole MN community. The effect of this sort of policing is to make women doubt themselves, their instincts and their minds. It makes it harder for us to talk about the very real issues raised by the trans agenda and the proposed changes to legislation. Women are now being physically attacked for wanting to talk about this stuff. So I'm sure you'll understand why some of us are getting a bit shirty about unfounded slurs which feed into an atmosphere where that violence against women is reframed as totally OK and any discussion of the issues is silenced.

There's a thread here where someone has accused the whole MN community of transphobia. Why not join in if you have anything to say beyond vague unsubstantiated statements about tone and frequency of posts? I'm sure the OP would appreciate some support, she's not doing very well.

The reason there are lots of posts is because women are waking up to what's going on.

Fuck sake Pengggwn

Wrote out a whole long thing but can't be arsed arguing. Yes that's exactly what I meant .

This forum is famous for its idiocy but this thread takes the .

ringle

Issues? Well certainly not in the jealous of me sense I wouldn't think. I'm very boring and traditional in all aspects of life and she cannot see the appeal in any of that (straight married patent work - she is direct opposite in all ways).

Fair enough.

Similarly, I don't have to change my opinion that your baseless and vague accusations amount to goady fuckery and contribute to the chilling effect on women's ability to discuss imminent legal changes that will affect all of us.

Glad we've sorted that out.

OP, ok, so probably not jealousy.

To me the transgender thing is a red herring. If my brother had a kid it would be prayed over and I would have an opinion on that borne out of a combination of love for the child and irritation with his rather unusual religion. Lots of new aunts face such dilemmas. But voicing these opinions, let alone trying to override those of the parents, is crossing a line.

They are general comments accusing MN of being transphobic - wtf else were you doing?! Actually, don't bother answering. As pencils said, it's goady fuckery, arguing black is white and not having the guts to back up your assertions with specifics. It is all part of a generalised trend towards shutting down debate in identity politics.

Is it just a feeling Peng? Like the "feeling like a woman" so many Trans Activists seem to claim but can never actually explain what being a woman means when asked. The dancing round, refusing to give a straight answer and not actually providing anything concrete just seems so familiar.

The dancing round, refusing to give a straight answer and not actually providing anything concrete just seems so familiar.

Yup.

Ask your sister for some help understanding this new doctrine. How do you guide your daughter to find their true gender as they navigate childhood?

Presumably you need to give some kind of lesson or advice to your child so they can feel each gender and make their decision.

Perhaps, you could suggest to your sister, your DD should be termed using 'she' when she's wearing pink. When she's wearing blue, she could be called 'he'. And when she's wearing yellow, she could be called 'they'.

Say that you read an article saying that a mother knew her daughter was trans when she asked for a pirate party for her four year old birthday. Ask your sister to sit down for a coffee to flesh out a list of similar signs. Picks up a barbie when going into a playgroup? Boy. Tries to climb a tree? Boy. Wants to watch Frozen not Paw Patrol when give a choice? Girl. Knows numbers before letters? Boy. Chooses a raspberry lolly not a blueberry lolly when given a choice? Girl.

Take her reaaaaalllly seriously and explore it in depth so she can see the madness in the whole thing.

Don't do that.

*Oh sorry, picks up a barbie? GIRL! Also, reaches out to touch glittery fabric when being pushed through a fabric shop. GIRL.

Oh why not ringle ? SUCH FUN!

If this is the worst of your worries then you lead a charmed life OP

Your sister is a fucking idiot.

I'm the lucky recipient of a gender dysphoric daughter and I can honestly say that your sister is being a twat.

Aunts -even mad aunts -are important.

Sister just needs to learn her place in the pecking order.

The OP's sister isn't alone. There are loads of youngish parents agonising over what to call their DC, whether it's OK to use "boy" for AMAB (assigned male at birth) children / "girl" for AFAB (assigned female at birth) children.

The discussions about this with like minded people online are so fucking tedious IMO! Full of calling each other out and establishing who's the most oppressed (and therefore has the trump card to tell everyone else to STFU / they're doing it wrong).

Then they all congratulate each other if one of their primary age children transitions. Fucking scary stuff IMO.

• socially transitions, I mean, not medically!

I see a lot about m to f trans issues on here but never f to m. I was just wondering how that side of the issue is being discussed. Caitlin Jenner was named ‘woman of the year’ has there been the same for Chaz Bono, for example?