Sister using pronoun they...

[Merida83]

To describe my 7 week old dd!
AIBU to be pissed off and to insist she refers to my DD by female only pronouns.

If this is the worst of your worries then you lead a charmed life OP hmm

OP! Did you realise that this is the WORST OF YOUR WORRIES? Worse than war in Syria? Worse than climate change? No? Then you're not allowed to post a discussion on it

Hope your daughter is ok Floella x

OP, your sister (or gender neutral sibling) is a plonker. YANBU

I am fairly new to MN and I don’t find it transphobic. On the contrary it’s good to have a place where genuine issues and concerns can be debated without being shouted down as “transphobic”.

Oh and if anyone refers to me as cis they’ll have their arse handed to them on a plate

@Day I believe M-F transitions are 2/3rds of all trans, so generally a higher population of trans people are M-F (though I don’t remember the source for this so please someone correct me if incorrect. I know there had been an increase in children F-M recently) I think one of the main reason people don’t discuss F-M issues as much, is because men aren’t threatened about females being in their spaces. They’re not as likely to dominate sports, or worry about F-M being in male only places. Though there obviously may be some issues, there’s no huge discussions to be had as less concern from males themselves.

MoistCantaloupe I just find it really interesting. We aren’t seeing great loads of people screaming that men need to accept a woman as ‘one of them’. I doubt very much most men would accept a female as one of their own.

I lean on the side that, although they would like to be men, f to m will still be much more accepted by the female population than by the biological male community. It seems to me they would also be much more vulnerable using male safe spaces (toilets / prisons etc) so will also tend to access to still the female areas (especially before any surgical procedures)

I am starting to see a future of toilet signs like ‘Male’ ‘Disabled’ ‘Other’.

Perhaps you ought to start referring to sister as "It" instead. See what happens.

Merida83 this is crap. How disturbing for you to have to deal with this shit.

I'm with AdalindSchade, NoSquirrels and everyone else on 'gender as a social construct' but...

"She believes that gender is a social construct and as such does not wish to assign dd a gender, until she herself does so." Well strictly speaking gender' as it is used sometimes today is a socially constructed idea of sexual stereotypes. But biologically speaking she is a girl so she is the pronoun others use referring to her.

Personally, I would not want someone like that around my child so she would be cutting herself out voluntarily.

Doomhutch "Genuinely have no idea why you'd care?" Because having people around your children who promote their own ideology (with which you disagree), so against your wishes, can be quite harmful in the long run.

"It doesn't affect either of you in any way." Well, clearly it does.

"You sound like a tit if you're willing to ruin your relationship over something this trivial." A lot of people on this thread have supported the OP. I don't think she is the tit, at all.

Oh, and "Shim" and "H'She"

MoistCantaloupe I've heard the numbers of trans males/females is similar. Not sure how or where I heard that. But I think the reasons we don't hear about men shouting about trans men is, because trans men are not making loads of demands of men, not generally demanding gay men sleep with them, not demanding entry to male prisons, etc etc.

Plus also, as you say, men are not usually at all threatened by females in their spaces.

Plus I think females who take testosterone can blend in quite well with men but, especially for older men who transition to be trans women they may not blend in so well , IMHO.

I think the reasons why males or females transition, and the age at which they transition, may vary more. But I've got no evidence on this, just things I have read, which seem to paint a picture of change.

For example I've read of some men transitioning to be trans women at quite late ages (60 plus) but I've not seen this for women transitioning to be trans men.

Of course the truth is it is very hard to continue using they/them when everyone else is using singular pronouns. So you could just say nothing and wait till she says "she/her" - because she will - and then look at her sadly and say "et tu Brute I thought you were the right-on aunt" or similar.

Honestly OP, I think you could have a lot of innocent fun watching your sister twist herself in knots on this one.

I'm all for addressing people how they want to be addressed - half of DD1's teenage friends prefer they/them and everyone goes along but for a baby who doesn't have a preference who has parents and family who are using she/her so there is not reinforcement/manners around using they/them- your sister will be saying she/her in no time. And then looking like an idiot.

Although I would really love to get all gender angry with her and ask why on earth your sister thinks your baby should be assigned they/them?? Like why not he/him or she/her. Terribly presumptuous of her (and really naive in the politics of this whole gender-gone thing - she is a real novice)

I feel irritated on your behalf OP. And it’s not even over the trans issue. It’s over your sister’s attention seeking behaviour.

This is your new baby. This is your time.

This sounds on a par with relatives to object to the name you’ve chosen, or clothing choice.

This is the one time in your life, and the life of your baby, where you have proprietary rights.

Someone muscling in, as though they know better than you, whatever the issue, is tedious and annoying.

Personally, I would deprive the entire thing of oxygen. I wouldn’t mention it, I wouldn’t comment on it, I wouldn’t object to it. Simply ignore it. Almost as though you are indulging her.

The best way to deal with her is to show that she has zero impact. And, you know what, she should have zero impact.

Mentally file it away in ‘stuff siblings do that’s annoying’.

Congratulations on your new baby.

I am very confused by all this gender stuff and totally at a loss with all the terms. Terfs? And civs?
I am old"getting on" though!
There have always been gay people and men who dress as women and women who dress as men. I'm sure that everyone can be who or what they want to be, without all this trouble and labelling and name calling.
If by my nativity I have upset anyone, it was totally unintended.

Naivety

Itsonkyme

I don’t blame you. It’s a minefield. There are important issues at stake, however. Head over to the FWR boards if you want to find out more about it all.

Why does it upset you? Whatever her beliefs, you will raise your DD as you feel right. Feel free to raise your eyebrows and sigh loudly. Then do what you feel is best for your Dd. Same as when anyone else says something ridiculous. Why is it worth getting upset about? You'll have years of people knowing better than you as her parent. Don't waste your energy

No one ever hears about ftm because they are female and no one gives a fuck about us!

She refers to sex so your sister is a twit op. You anbu.

I don't care if someone is transgender but I will not be addressing everyone as "it" or "they" just in case they are. I will use she or he depending on what I see till someone tells me otherwise. I will respect that.

I'm not changing everyone to "it" just because of a very small minority of transgenders that don't look like their chosen gender. All the transgenders I have encountered thus far have made their gender very clear in their appearance or name anyway. I will address a child by their sex until he or she informs me otherwise.

The only time I didn't know what to call someone was when I met an intersex female. I asked her, she called herself a female (although explained the intersex and wasn't bothered with being called a male or trans sometimes). It was fine.

The only time I didn't know what to call someone was when I met an intersex female. I asked her, she called herself a female (although explained the intersex and wasn't bothered with being called a male or trans sometimes).

Seriously? An intersex female wasn’t bothered about being called male or trans?

I actually find the posters on this thread incredibly racist. In what way? Oh, stop bloody trying to control the conversation and bend it to your agenda! I feel it in my bones that you're all racist even though I can't actually prove it. People on mn, what racist bastards they are. And you expect me to justify saying that? Oh, stop debating with yourself.

It was an analogy