To be shocked at the sheer amount of hatred and ignorance about transpeople on mumsnet

[Curiositykilledthecat113]

Specifically transwomen, according to the majority of mumsnet, all transwomen want to rape biological women, “steal their womanhood” and all sorts of other ridiculous, offensive statements without any factual backing.

So why is Mumsnet so intolerant and ignorant towards transgender people?

It's not transphobic but it shows that you don't really understand gender dysphoria.

Yes, that's exactly what I said myself. That I don't understand it. I have read and read and tried to understand and it still makes no sense to me. You haven't tried to explain it, you've just tutted at how ignorant I am.

Maybe you should really meet some trans people in real life.

You make it sound as if I deliberately avoid transpeople. I don't, I just don't know any. In the same way as I don't know anyone who falls into all sorts of other groups of people that you might mention.

About 80% of trans people never undergo any surgery though

Are you talking about transsexuals or just anyone who falls under the 'trans umbrella'?

I just don't know any. In the same way as I don't know anyone who falls into all sorts of other groups of people that you might mention

Doesn't stop you generalising though, does it?

About 80% of trans people never undergo any surgery though

Are you talking about transsexuals or just anyone who falls under the 'trans umbrella'?

What is a trans umbrella? Does it feel that it should have been a walking stick?

"Your understanding is wrong"

I'm not, you know. Gender dysphoria is a treatable psychiatric condition. Most trans people say that they do not have a psychiatric condition- they are just women with an outwardly "male" body, or vice versa.

I'm talking about individuals who identify as transgender. You are aware that if the new law is passed that will be all it takes?

What is a trans umbrella? Does it feel that it should have been a walking stick

There's a whole lot of people who say they are trans. Some are transvestites, some are non binary and some are people who go to the NHS and eventually end up taking hormones and transitioning.

When people say that 80% of trans people don't have surgery, it's a question of which trans people they are talking about.

Doesn't stop you generalising though, does it?

In what way? I thought the entire point of being transgender was that you 'feel like you are the opposite sex' or 'feel like you are in the wrong body'.

I'm not, you know. Gender dysphoria is a treatable psychiatric condition. Most trans people say that they do not have a psychiatric condition- they are just women with an outwardly "male" body, or vice versa

www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/

Treated with transitioning to some degree - often with hormones or surgery.

So sick of hearing about transgender agenda this past year. Why not live and let live without ramming it down everyone's throats the whole time?

YANBU. There are so many threads about the "trans agenda" and TRAs, and they're so full of misinformation and unkindness. It's the only thing I truly dislike about Mumsnet. I hide all the threads that come up as rational argument doesn't seem to work, and try to focus on the fact that there are many more people trying to make life better for transpeople, not harder.

In what way? I thought the entire point of being transgender was that you 'feel like you are the opposite sex' or 'feel like you are in the wrong body

You seemed to be talking about how transwomen felt about the way women are treated by men and not talking about the 'wrong' body.

Strange that that is the diagnosis for surgery.

The majority of people who identify themselves as trans don’t have or want surgery. You’re about ten years behind the times if you think this is a movement made up largely of transsexuals.

(And yes I do know trans people, and I don’t question their experience of their own lives and feelings. I think they should get to live happy and fulfilled lives. But I don’t think penises are female, I don’t think lesbians are bigots for not wanting to include them in their sex lives, and I don’t think anyone should be ‘socially transitioning’ toddlers for wanting to play with the ‘wrong’ toys.)

You seemed to be talking about how transwomen felt about the way women are treated by men and not talking about the 'wrong' body.

No, I was referring to the poster who said that people should be treated as the gender they want to be, or words to that effect.

If a man wants to be a woman, and he wants all the disadvantages that come with that, it's baffling to women who spend their lives trying to escape that.

And if he wants to be a woman but without the disadvantages, well then he doesn't actually want to be a woman.

My concern is young females taking hormones that will probably shorten their lives and destroy their fertility. I don't hate transanyone but I fear their future.

It doesn't matter whereabouts under the 'umbrella' an individual sits, they don't even need a diagnosis of dysphoria, let alone surgery if the new law comes in. Self declaration will be enough to grant access to sex segregated spaces and facilities.

If a man wants to be a woman, and he wants all the disadvantages that come with that, it's baffling to women who spend their lives trying to escape that

Being trans is probably baffling to people who aren't trans.

And if he wants to be a woman but without the disadvantages, well then he doesn't actually want to be a woman

I'm sure being trans comes with its own disadvantages.

FGS, how many times does 'people on mumsnet are transphobic' have to be posted on here?

I must have read half a dozen threads like this in the past few months!

I don't even see that much 'transphobia' FGS.

And why do women have to be disadvantaged even further to accomodate another group? Why should the rights of trans people to have their identity validated be prioritised over the right of women to enjoy safe sex segregated spaces?

And why do women have to be disadvantaged even further to accomodate another group

It's strange how a thread asking about transphobia on MN can be derailed to talk about trans rights etc.

Firstly, I would still like someone (other than Shania Twain) to explain to me what being a woman ‘feels like’. I always hear this and I don’t get it. I have a been a woman my entire life and I don’t think anything apart from my vagina ‘defines me as a woman’

Secondly, I don’t think I have seen any true transphobic comments on here. I have seen lots and lots of women posting links to studies etc and raising genuinely important questions in the trans debate, just to get shouted down as being a transphobic arsehole.

I’ve just realised what’s happening.

Women have one tiny corner of the Internet that we can call our own. Where we can talk about our problems.
Then some trans woman turn up, demand that they come in and proceed to tell us all that we are wrong and our experience of being women is wrong.

Shit.

Well most of the trans threads on MN are discussing that very issue. I'm wondering where the alleged transphobia is, and why most of those who make accusations of it don't actually have an answer to the perfectly legitimate concerns of women.

I honestly don't think I'm transphobic, though I suppose many trans activists would say I am. I've been an out lesbian for a very long time (35 years?) and have socialised with many trans people in that time. A couple of my old friends are now trans men.

I never thought it was possible to be born in the wrong body, and I suppose I saw transgenderism as a response to socially constructed gender roles. But it also seemed uncivil to express this to trans people, and I kind of thought anything that challenged conventional gender roles was probably useful, and we are all after all trying to make sense of gender roles in our own way.

But I do despise much current trans activism. Yes, I know that sounds a little 'love the sinner, hate the sin', and it feels uncomfortable to say, in effect, that I suppose trans people but only on my terms. As a lesbian I've had plenty of experience of people pulling a similar shtick on me. I suppose the difference is that as a lesbian I never demanded that straight people start defining themselves differently, or endorsing my theories about sexual orientation - I just asked them to stop treating me like shit. There's something about the intrusiveness of trans activism that really gets my goat - the closing down of debate, the insistence that everybody who doesn't take the party line is a bigot, the aggression.

I used to work very hard to keep an open mind, thinking it was possible that I would end up on the wrong side of history. I don't think that will happen any more. The levels of social contagion we are seeing will surely not be sustained. And I think back to how immature and chaotic lesbian and gay activism was when I was young - the difference was that nobody paid us any attention, which in some ways was beneficial as our activism matured out of the spotlight. I think we will get past this point, the students will get bored, the fetishisation of personal brand will hopefully be eased by a more positive political climate, and trans people will develop a more mature and intellectually robust politics.

We can dream!