To be shocked at the sheer amount of hatred and ignorance about transpeople on mumsnet

[Curiositykilledthecat113]

Specifically transwomen, according to the majority of mumsnet, all transwomen want to rape biological women, “steal their womanhood” and all sorts of other ridiculous, offensive statements without any factual backing.

So why is Mumsnet so intolerant and ignorant towards transgender people?

It seems as though suggesting there is any difference between transwomen and women is seen as transphobic by some people.

I think trans people should be able to live their lives free from harassment or discrimination. I also think females should be entitled to compete against only females in sports as the physiological differences between males and females are too significant to be ignored. Apparently that makes me transphobic and guilty of violence against transwomen.

I'm wondering where the alleged transphobia is, and why most of those who make accusations of it

I don't think there is transphobia. I do think there are some posters who generalise about transwomen in a negative way and this can lead to a drip drip negative view of transwomen.

I really haven't seen much rational argument or help with any misinformation as to why any thread (which is usually a specific issue affecting women and usually with plenty of evidence to support discussion) is unkind or wrong, it seems to go 'you're all mean and transphobic' and the conversation ends there. And the 'unkindness' usually translates as 'not unconditionally applauding' and 'having questions'.

I may be wrong, the language and current right think changes so fast it's hard to keep up with, but I thought that anyone, including trans people, saying that gender dysphoria is an essential part of being trans, are called 'truscum' and treated not much better than 'terfs'. Googling 'truscum' still brings up that definition?

Out of interest OP, are you actually interested in this subject or are you just after another 1000 comment thread?

Yanbu. It’s depressing.

I honestly have no idea why I'm even bothering putting time and energy into writing this post because I know that all the "you're all so transphobic!" posters will ignore me and flounce, but I am going to write it anyway.

Nobody on here hates trans people or thinks we're all rapists just waiting to pounce on unsuspecting women. Not once have I seen anyone on here say anything that could even be mistaken for that. What people have said however is that men who are rapists, perverts, etc will use these new laws and policies to their advantage in order to get easier access to victims. That is not the same thing as saying that transwomen are all sexual predators just waiting to pounce yet people seem to think they mean the same thing. Bizarre.

Let's just think about this for a second. If all someone needs to do to change their gender is simply by filling out a form or even simply stating that they are women then why wouldn't a sex offender think all his Christmases had come at once? Instead of brushing people's concerns aside and labeling them bigots, perhaps you could actually engage in discussion and explain why you don't think predatory men won't claim to be trans in order to make things easier for himself?

Disagreeing with self identification is not transphobia. Biology and facts are not bigotry and to say they are minimises what real transphobia is. I still have the scar on my forehead from when I was hit on the head with a bottle and called a revolting tranny. Lumping something like that in with people simply stating biological facts or disagreeing with people being able to change their gender on a whim is downright offensive and ignorant.

I'm with those who are sick to death hearing about women's rights being pushed aside to give priority to transexuals. I don't give a damn how you live your life but I do give a damn when I hear of trans men who have a history of sexual violence and still have a penis being put in a female prison. I do give a damn when trans men invade female only spaces, and I do give a damn when trans men come first, second and third in a woman's race.

stitchglitched
And why do women have to be disadvantaged even further to accommodate another group? Why should the rights of trans people to have their identity validated be prioritised over the right of women to enjoy safe sex segregated spaces?

This says it all.

YADNBU

Nobody on here hates trans people or thinks we're all rapists just waiting to pounce on unsuspecting women

Do you think there are some posters who make negative comments about transwomen as a whole and that this drip drip commentating can have a negative effect on how people view transwomen?

Not transphobia - but it does have an effect on how transwomen are viewed?

Do you think there are some posters who make negative comments about transwomen as a whole and that this drip drip commentating can have a negative effect on how people view transwomen?

But some people seem to think that to say there is any difference at all between women and transwomen is to be negative about transwomen. So unless you’re willing to entirely ignore basic science you are being negative about transwomen.

I've been shocked by how bigoted and illiberal the general views about trans people and trans rights are on mumsnet. This biological feminism is so old school!

Do you think there are some posters who make negative comments about transwomen as a whole

What do you class as a negative comment?

According to the trans activists, simply pointing out that I am male is an act of literal violence...

It's shocking the amount of vitriol on here sometimes.
It is past time HQ put a proper policy in place.

What do you class as a negative comment

General comments about how transwomen behave as a group, think as a group, how apearance is all they think about etc - and a negative, stereotypical view of transwomen as a whole.

and a negative, stereotypical view of transwomen as a whole.

Is saying there are differences between women and transwomen putting forward a negative view of transwomen?

Have you ever spoken to a trans person in real life

Yes, I've known probably in region of 30 or so trans people (some as friends, some as more casual acquaintances, some prominent trans speakers I've attended talks by etc) going back over 20+ years in the LGBT community, and have defended their rights to live their lives free from violence, harassment etc.

During this time, I have noticed a major change in the people who are identifying as trans. Previously there were transexuals (ie people with gender dsyphoria who wanted to change their body to look like the opposite sex) and transvestites (who were men who liked to dress up in stereotypically female clothing but knew they were men.)

Now, we are seeing a lot of different groups identifying as trans including children and young people identifying or being identified by parents as trans because they are non-gender conforming or, in the case of girls, often because they want to escape from the way they get treated as a teenage girl. Many of these children will not identify as trans as adults (many will be lesbian or gay) - but by then they have been given damaging drugs and/or surgery which will affect them for the rest of their lives.

The adult males now identifying as transwomen has also changed - I'm definitely encountering more flat-out creeps. Most of them identify as lesbians (which is why I encounter so many of them as I am a lesbian) and feel that they are oppressed because lesbians won't suck their 'ladydick' (google 'the cotton ceiling'). The vast majority still have a penis and many do not feel any dysphoria and are very proud of their 'ladydick'. Many have had no hormone treatment and, yes, some even sport a beard (not just the famous examples - I've encountered a couple of these myself).

The proposed legislation won't even require individuals to "genuinely" feel they identify as a woman - and won't in practice require them to fill in a form because it would be discrimination to ask a male-bodied person who might be trans for proof that they should be in the ladies' changing rooms.

In all this, the original group of people who were called 'trans' ie traditional 'transsexuals' are marginalised and many disagree with the new agenda but are vilified as 'truscum' or transmedicalists'.

Oh, and any woman raising even the slightest concern about any of this, is subjected to abuse and threats and women are now being assaulted in real life for daring to want to debate legislation which will affect them.

www.feministcurrent.com/2017/09/15/historic-speakers-corner-becomes-site-anti-feminist-silencing-violence/

helensteelbookfairstatement.wordpress.com/2017/11/02/statement-on-events-at-anarchist-bookfair-2017-by-helen-steel/

Most people do not care about it all. Let them be.

But when it impacts on women space fk that.

That is where the problems lie. I am never going to be happy about anyone with a penis wearing a skirt/dress or whatever invading my space, just because they say they are female.

It is dangerous and so fkn bizarre really. No I absolutely do not agree with this.

But am obviously not allowed to say it. Tough, I did.

Can I just point out that I find the whole "transwomen need to use female toilets because the male toilets are too dangerous" thing really strange?

If people honestly believe that transwomen are at risk in the male toilets, them wtf would you be in favour of a law which means that any bloke can decide he's a woman and use the corresponding facilities? What is actually stopping a violent man self identifying his way into the womens toilets and assaulting us there instead?

Thinking about it, there is no logical reason why the mens toilets would be dangerous for transwomen because as it is repeatedly pointed out (usually by the same people who insist mens toilets are dangerous places for us), the majority of men are not violent or sex offenders. It's also extremely idiotic and hypocritical to claim that male toilets are too dangerous for us whilst at the same time mocking and belittling women who feel threatened by men in certain situations. So it is totally fine for me as a transwoman to express fear of men and I'm given sympathy but when women do it they are belittled and labelled man haters...

I've actually been thinking about conducting my own personal experiment for a while. My idea is to start using the mens toilets and seeing if and how much shit I land myself in for using them. I will report back with my findings.

Someone has probably said it but I can't be bothered to read. It's not about transpeople it's about people pretending to be trans to access places they shouldn't be able to access.

I'm claiming transman at my next salary discussion to see if I can earn what a man earns for doing the same job

Trans rights are progressing, even if it isn't as quickly as we'd like.

I was going to muster enough energy to type a serious reply to this but then I saw who'd posted it and decided not to bother.

I think you and @toconclude should get together some time.

curry

Does the stereotyping and negative drip drip comments by some people on here ever worry you and worry you about how other people in real life may perceive you and judge you - because they only tend to hear negative opinions and viewpoints of transpeople as a whole?

General comments about how transwomen behave as a group, think as a group, how apearance is all they think about etc - and a negative, stereotypical view of transwomen as a whole.

Not really because it's pretty clear to me that they are talking about specific transwomen and not about us as a group.

Does the stereotyping and negative drip drip comments by some people on here ever worry you and worry you about how other people in real life may perceive you and judge you - because they only tend to hear negative opinions and viewpoints of transpeople as a whole?

Tbh I'm more worried about the view that's been painted of us by the trans rights activists. They are the ones who are making us all look like a bunch of misogynistic homophobic entitled twats.