Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Who was bu?

251 replies

Neoflex · 04/11/2017 18:21

Today was at a couples birthing course. Paid privately, 2 days. 12 couples and two single women who then paired up.
Of the 12 couples was a lesbian couple (one pregnant and her partner). The partner complained pretty early on in the course because the midwife referred to the "dads" She requested that only birthing partner be used in the course because she felt excluded.
The midwife explained that the course was a couples course and the dads are the fathers of the children and they should feel more than just birthing partners. That they shouldn't feel excluded either.
The midwife continued to use dads for the whole day.
The lesbian partner spent the whole day huffing and rolling her eyes.
Her pregnant partner looked pretty overwhelmed by the whole experience.
Who was being unreasonable?

OP posts:
RhiWrites · 05/11/2017 09:55

For gods sake, ask to see the most senior person and complain about this blatant bigotry. And tell the other mum you’re sorry you didn’t speak up yesterday.

NoSquirrels · 05/11/2017 09:55

The midwife explained that the course was a couples course and the dads are the fathers of the children and they should feel more than just birthing partners.

The partners of the pregnant women will be one of two equal parents to the child.

Dad is no more "special" than Mum in this context.

"Dads" may have donated the sperm (or may not have - how would that midwife know anyway?) but in terms of the birthing experience are definitely no more entitled to anything than a female birthing partner.

It was a "couples" course. If they had advertised it as a "Mums & Dads" course I doubt couples of different set-ups would have bothered wasting their money.

FFS, this has made me really cross, somehow.

MNHQ
FlissMumsnet · 05/11/2017 13:54

Ahem........Flowers

JonSnowsWife · 05/11/2017 14:33

^The pregnant mum is here alone today. The other mum hasn't come to the course.
Feeling pretty awful about it^

Neoflex that's awful. Sad sadly not surprising. Did you manage to speak to pregnant lady?

DayManChampionOfTheSun · 05/11/2017 14:48

Personally, I don’t think partner would have been an appropriate alternative to Dad. Partner is defining the relationship between them and the mother, not the baby.

I don’t know what the correct words should have been, but if this is a course for couples (as OP said) then presumably each person there will be taking on parental roles.

If I was the midwife, I probably would have started the whole thing by defining that I would be referring to the expectant mums as ‘A’ and the other parent as ‘B’ for the duration. No one is excluded then.

BatteredBreadedOrSouthernFried · 05/11/2017 14:56

The other mum hasn't come to the course.

Well it was made pretty clear to her that the course wasn’t for her and she wouldn’t be included so......

BatteredBreadedOrSouthernFried · 05/11/2017 14:58

Partner is defining the relationship between them and the mother, not the baby.

The course is not a parenting course. It’s a birth course. It’s to support the birthing mother during her labour and birth. The relationship to the child that will be born is irrelevant in this context.

Ttbb · 05/11/2017 15:00

Both. MW should have just said Dads and 'bane of non pregnant lesbian'.

RebootYourEngine · 05/11/2017 15:03

At my work we are discouraged from saying dad and encouraged to say birthing partner.

The midwife was being very unreasonable.

DayManChampionOfTheSun · 05/11/2017 15:08

BatteredBreadedOrSouthernFried

So you’re just going to ignore the rest of my post which clearly stated why I thought this element was important:

but if this is a course for couples (as OP said) then presumably each person there will be taking on parental roles

BatteredBreadedOrSouthernFried · 05/11/2017 15:12

I read your whole post. The sole purpose of the (non pregnant) people attending was so they could learn how to provide support to their partner during labour and childbirth. They weren’t getting advice on nappies or bottles or baby sleeping. That’s a different course. This one was to do with how they will support their partner, not the child.

DayManChampionOfTheSun · 05/11/2017 15:13

^^ sorry posted too soon.

As the OP stated, this was for couples, making the experience be for the family unit as a whole, not just for mums and their chosen birh partner. It wouldn’t be suitable for a woman and her mum for example, or a mate.

That is why I also stated:

If I was the midwife, I probably would have started the whole thing by defining that I would be referring to the expectant mums as ‘A’ and the other parent as ‘B’ for the duration. No one is excluded then

JacquesHammer · 05/11/2017 15:14

Partner is defining the relationship between them and the mother, not the baby

That's the whole point of these courses though. Giving instruction on how best the partner can support the mother. Doesn't matter who that partner is

WashingMatilda · 05/11/2017 15:16

This thread has made me so sad for the gay couple. They've probably been through hell and high water to get to the wonderful stage they're at.
To finally arrive there and have some lazy twat midwife excluding them so obviously in front of total strangers is bad enough, but THEN to have the OP and presumably all the other members of the class sit silently and post a bitchy thread about it is just horrid.

Are you / have you spoken to the mother OP? Tried to make her feel welcome? Been supportive?

DayManChampionOfTheSun · 05/11/2017 15:20

JacquesHammer then why is it a class specifically advertised for couples (ie assuming both people present would have a parental role) and not just for mother’s and their chosen birthing pal?

I don’t think it was fair that the lesbian couple were excluded. But I equally don’t think partner is a good alternative. I find it interesting that people seem to be jumping down my throat about this when I clearly said i think a parent A / parent B situation would have been kinder and more inclusive to all involved.

Coldilox · 05/11/2017 15:26

If it's advertised for couples, partner is the perfect word. Any couple that came would be in some form of partnership.

As I said, at my course it was partners, and that was a course about birth and the early days of parenthood. Referring to partners in order to include my wife in no way diminished the parenting role that any of the partners would have. Every non pregnant person there was a partner to one of the pregnant women.

BatteredBreadedOrSouthernFried · 05/11/2017 15:27

Referring to people as A and B is fucking ridiculous! Can’t believe anyone would prefer a whole room of people be called letters of the alphabet than partner.

Notreallyarsed · 05/11/2017 15:29

The open homophobia on this thread is horrifying. As is the resistance to the word partner. Ugh. It’s like we’ve gone back in time to the 1940s or something.

MW was being more than unreasonable, she was being deliberately exclusionary to the other parent of the baby. Mum and Dad, Mum on her own, Mum and Mum, Dad and Dad, all equally valid. Fucking hell, do we really live in a world where it’s actually acceptable to exclude someone from parenting because of their gender/sexual orientation? That is utterly depressing.

Just a quick note, being married doesn’t make you better than anyone else, being heterosexual doesn’t make you better than anyone else, being bigoted makes you a dick.

DayManChampionOfTheSun · 05/11/2017 15:32

Referring to people as A and B is fucking ridiculous! Can’t believe anyone would prefer a whole room of people be called letters of the alphabet than partner

Fine I am obviously an idiot to think the role of the other parent amounts to more than the relationship they have to the mother, especially when these courses also involve discussing the first few months of parenthood, not just the birth. Obviously I am wrong.

JacquesHammer · 05/11/2017 15:33

If it's advertised for couples, partner is the perfect word. Any couple that came would be in some form of partnership

Totally this. There must be a fair bit of heterosexual insecurity at play if you'd object to a man being called "partner".

It doesn't diminish any role

TheStoic · 05/11/2017 15:37

Fine I am obviously an idiot to think the role of the other parent amounts to more than the relationship they have to the mother

Person B, as you put it, may not be the parent of the unborn baby. They ARE definitely the partner of the pregnant woman, in whatever sense of the word is accurate. That’s why they are there.

DayManChampionOfTheSun · 05/11/2017 15:41

Person B, as you put it, may not be the parent of the unborn baby. They ARE definitely the partner of the pregnant woman, in whatever sense of the word is accurate. That’s why they are there

Right and assuming they are the partner of the pregnant woman AND taking couples courses with them, I am assuming they will also be taking on some form of PARENTING role.

BatteredBreadedOrSouthernFried · 05/11/2017 15:44

Fine I am obviously an idiot to think the role of the other parent amounts to more than the relationship they have to the mother

You’re certainly very silly to not understand the concept of a birth partner and to understand that this is the context under which they are attending so being referred to as a partner is entirely accurate. Not sure why do many are offended by being called partner. It’s exactly what they are in this context.

TheStoic · 05/11/2017 15:50

I am assuming they will also be taking on some form of PARENTING role.

And that assumption could be wrong.

Again, all you DO know is that the pregnant woman has a partner with her.

Honestly, it’s not rocket science.

peachgreen · 05/11/2017 15:51

Right and assuming they are the partner of the pregnant woman AND taking couples courses with them, I am assuming they will also be taking on some form of PARENTING role.

Indeed.* As well as being my romantic partner, my DH will also be my birthing partner and my parenting partner. Perfectly appropriate to call him ‘partner’ in the context of a birthing or parenting class. And using ‘partner’ covers off married and unmarried heterosexual couples, married and unmarried gay couples, single women there with family or friends, men who will be raising their partner’s child with another man - in fact, pretty much everyone in every scenario. So it’s the perfect word to use.*

The only people who would object would be homophobes, old-fashioned bigots who object to unmarried or non-biological parents, and people so desperately insecure in their heterosexual marriage that they have to have its ‘specialness’ reaffirmed at every possible occasion, no matter who that might hurt.**