Who was bu?

[Neoflex]

Today was at a couples birthing course. Paid privately, 2 days. 12 couples and two single women who then paired up.
Of the 12 couples was a lesbian couple (one pregnant and her partner). The partner complained pretty early on in the course because the midwife referred to the "dads" She requested that only birthing partner be used in the course because she felt excluded.
The midwife explained that the course was a couples course and the dads are the fathers of the children and they should feel more than just birthing partners. That they shouldn't feel excluded either.
The midwife continued to use dads for the whole day.
The lesbian partner spent the whole day huffing and rolling her eyes.
Her pregnant partner looked pretty overwhelmed by the whole experience.
Who was being unreasonable?

Ugh. Bold fail.

peachgreen
I’m sorry, are you honestly calling me a homophone becuase I think the role of both the fathers AND the non-pregnant lady in the lesbian relationship amount to more than than just partners of the mothers but also actual parents to the upcoming child?

Dayman - a woman could have a friend with her who will be supporting her at the birth and may or may not be helping her with the newborn. They are not however a parent. Birth partner is the perfect word in this or any other case because it’s inclusive of everyone. Fathers, mothers, friends, partners, relatives.
The midwife was out of order I hope she gets pulled about her attitude. End of.

Anyoneanytimeanywhere

I imagine they wouldn’t be at a couples course if that was the case.

Regarding he midwife, yes I think you’re right. It was totally out of order for her not to include the lesbian lady and I hope a complaint is raised.

Why can’t they be at a couples course if it’s covering supporting a woman in childbirth?
Why are women would women in a relationship have an exclusive course for them.
The midwife was in the wrong and should have made everyone feel welcome whether they are in a relationship, or not, and regardless of if they are heterosexual, or not.

Anyoneanytimeanywhere the OP said it was a course specifically for couples. I didnt create the course or would I probably take it! I’m just saying that’s what the OP said it was.

And by couples, I assumed that includes homosexual/heterosexual couples. Before I am accused of being a homophobe again.

@DayManChampionOfTheSun Nope, I’m saying you’re either a homophobe, old-fashioned or insecure in your heterosexual marriage - did you not read the rest of my post?

Anyway, if, really and truly, your only concern is that ‘partner’ doesn’t emphasise the connection between non-birthing parent and child enough, I’m not sure how your A and B suggestion would address that issue?

peachgreen well I’m not in a heterosexual marriage for a start.

Yes that literally was my only point. In all my posts, I have not once mentioned anything horrible towards any type of relationship people chose to have or the sex of people’s chosen significant other.

I literally meant at a class designed for couples, the focus is on more than just the birth. It also focuses on the family element when they bring in the first couple of moths of parenthood. Stating Mum and Dad is not right as not everyone will be a ‘dad’. Partner is not right to me as it doesn’t bring their role as a parent into it. You could say ‘other parent’ but that probably isn’t going to be correct 100% of the time either.

Maybe A and B isn’t right and also brings on a hierarchy, I was only trying to think of a system which would be fair to all couples and not denote the parental aspect of the other person, no matter what sex they may be! Taking away any labels was just a way I thought that could be achieved.

Dayman - So if a woman does not have a intimate partner, man or woman. For whatever reason, then they should be excluded from the course. Why should that be?
Families are all different.
If a midwife does not want to support a pregnant woman by educating her birth partner because she is not in a relationship with the birth partner, or the partner she is in a relationship with is a woman, then the midwife should not be practising.
It is discriminatory and just plain not very nice.
How awful for the same sex couple. How potentially awful would it be if you are a woman going through pregnancy alone and you could be, excluded, as you suggested from attending a course because your birth partner was for example your mum or your friend. You could feel like you were in some way not good enough.
How will this same sex couple and Potentially the mums who aren’t in relationships then feel about going to this hospital and giving birth. I suspect they may feel as if they are going to be judged. I hope that this is just the attitude of one nasty midwife and not the whole hospital delivery ward.

Lateral thinking here. How about something like “chum” or “stoker” (as in the person who supports on a tandem ride ? Keeps things lighthearted while being pretty inclusive of all possibilities.

I was a bit surprised to find DP referred to as “hubby” on my medical notes when having DD: we’d not talked to the HCPs much about our circs at all (he is often taken for my father), let alone caused them to believe we were married. And this was in a part of the country with probably the biggest proportion of unmarried parents...

Anyoneanytimeanywhere

I am not the OP, I didn’t decide to go to a couples only birthing course. I wouldn’t choose to go to a couples only birthing course. I am literally stating a fact that the OP stated it was a course for couples.

Mw was completely out of order. How sad that the partner did not come to the second session. Surely in 2017 lesbian couples are not that unusual. They should complain (and if I were in the OP's shoes I would want to leave feedback about this).

Got back after day 2. Was another day spent on birthing balls, massage, meditation etc. The mum joined with the two other alone mums and they took turns in these activities.
I also got speaking to all 3 mums in the lunchbreak. Both the other mums do have partners. Mum 1's could not be there due to having to work at last minute. Mum 2's was having doubts about being at the birth and had changed his mind at last minute. And we know why mum 3 was there alone today.
I got started by chatting to mum 2 because we both have diabetes and had to measure our blood. So it was a good way to join them.
All three mums were lovely but surprisingly it was mum 1 who was most mad about mum 3's partner being excluded. I could see that she was advocating for mum 3 during the day, correcting Mw when she said dad etc. She really took m3 under her wing and I think she was our group's hero. I'd like to pretend to the mumsnet world it was me and be your hero but it wasn't and I can just learn from m1 and take something with me for the future. I will press post before "oops something went wrong" comes on screen and then I have to write the whole message again. One sec

Also talked to m3 whose partner could not attend today. You seemed to be a very nervous quiet person in general but was really friendly. She said her partner couldn't be there due to stomach flu. I don't know if this is really what happened but this is what she was telling people and I didn't want to push her on it. She handled the whole situation very amicably and at the end of the course even shook hands with the Mw and said thank you for the course. I think she wanted to be the bigger person and not let this course ruin her pregnancy. We have all exchanged numbers and plan to meet, along with some of the other mums. I guess i will only know how she truly felt if we come together again and I can talk to her and her partner one to one about what happened the past couple of days. Will get to midwife/complaining in a minute...

She seemed* not you seemed. Autocorrected

The midwife and course were outdated in many ways and I think it is telling that this was private and probably normally attracts a very specific clientele. For example, at 29 I was the youngest mum there.
If remember thinking during the day that if I quoted some of the Mw's phrases that mumsnet would just explode with anger. Overall just a very backward thinking: mums should stay at home, strong focus on breast is best (although should not have been a main topic of course), many comments about man coming home from work. I was also told nobody would have time to read my birth plan and it was all just a waste of time.
I would advise anyone who is considering a private course with a mw/doula etc. that you really do your research and make sure this fits you. I'm not sure how regulated the advice is outside of the health system. When I asked about leaving feedback there was an email you could write to but it's the woman's own address and she picks feedback to post on her website.
I would not say it was a waste of time because the birthing positions and exercises really helped me and my Dh feel more in tune with one another and also think about the way we will communicate on the labour ward. There was no incorrect advice per se, nothing medical. The only and big problem was the Mw's outdated attitude.

Complain about the whole thing OP.

Yes please complain, OP. You might be able to stop it from happening to someone else.

When I asked about leaving feedback there was an email you could write to but it's the woman's own address and she picks feedback to post on her website.

I would definitely find someone else to feedback to - even if she's working independently as a private midwife she must at least be registered with the Nursing and Midwifery Council - whose Code of Professional Standards has "Treat people as individuals and uphold their dignity" as their first standard of service!

Her attitude was at best dismissive and at worst homophobic, m3 was very gracious not to cause a huge scene over her behaviour. Just imagine if she was in a session with a more vulnerable pregnant woman, can you imagine how damaging the MW's behaviour could have been for her confidence and anxiety of she is treated like a second class citizen because she wasn't with a "dad"?

Midwife was very unreasonable. Partner is a perfectly fine word. But why did nobody else speak up and say that then and there, rather than make one couple feel really unwelcome?

Thank you for the update OP, I'm sorry for my snippy post earlier, I just know I would be Mum1 in this situation and it's hard to hold my tongue!

You've learnt a lot from this experience and I think it's maybe opened your eyes a bit, I think complaining to an independent body is a really important next step and will make you feel better about perhaps not speaking up at the time.

Congratulations on your pregnancy and hope some of the things you learnt help you during the birth

"What do you think dads are if not fathers? confused" @battered oh yeah, that's exactly what they meant! confused

rather.

Does the course come up on google? You might be able to leave a review there about it being very obviously aimed at 'traditional family structures' and it needs to be updated to reflect current society. I would also feed back to the MW. She needs to realise that her prejudices are unattractive to a wide range of couples not just those directly affected. Good luck and hope it goes by your birth plan.