Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Who was bu?

251 replies

Neoflex · 04/11/2017 18:21

Today was at a couples birthing course. Paid privately, 2 days. 12 couples and two single women who then paired up.
Of the 12 couples was a lesbian couple (one pregnant and her partner). The partner complained pretty early on in the course because the midwife referred to the "dads" She requested that only birthing partner be used in the course because she felt excluded.
The midwife explained that the course was a couples course and the dads are the fathers of the children and they should feel more than just birthing partners. That they shouldn't feel excluded either.
The midwife continued to use dads for the whole day.
The lesbian partner spent the whole day huffing and rolling her eyes.
Her pregnant partner looked pretty overwhelmed by the whole experience.
Who was being unreasonable?

OP posts:
OpenThePickles · 04/11/2017 19:51

And she asked "where am I supposed to go then?" And the midwife just ignored the question

I would have ignored her as well. Why would she not know to use the ladies(pregnant ladies first obviously), it sounds to me like she was actively looking to be offended.

pandarific · 04/11/2017 19:51

Well, this thread is nice and homophobic. Confused

pandarific · 04/11/2017 19:52

OpenThePickles orrrr she was pissed off at the midwife (who was being a homophobic twat) and was expressinb her anger?

ButchyRestingFace · 04/11/2017 19:52

Well, this thread is nice and homophobic. confused

How so? The vast majority of respondents think the midwife was a pig-norant troglodyte.

OpenThePickles · 04/11/2017 19:54

pandarific

Yes but did she think there was a separate toilet just for her? Why on earth did she ask that question? Of course she knew to use the ladies.

pandarific · 04/11/2017 19:55

Was directed at the midwife defenders butchy.

ButchyRestingFace · 04/11/2017 19:56

Was directed at the midwife defenders butchy.

Of whom there are very few.

Albertschair · 04/11/2017 19:57

Surely you pitch a course at the group you are teaching. And you find out who is in the group at introductions.

So if you have a room of mum/ dad couples you use the words mum and dad. If you have a mix with friends/grandma etc as well as dads you use the words mums and birth partners. If there are lesbian parents there just ask them at the start.

To refer to a female second parent as a dad is just awful. And if the midwife said "dads at this point you rub mum's back" etc I'd be sorely tempted to ask "and what would I do? " every single time until she got the point, if I were a female second parent in that scenario.

JonSnowsWife · 04/11/2017 19:59

Yes but did she think there was a separate toilet just for her? Why on earth did she ask that question? Of course she knew to use the ladies.

So the midwife could have just smiled politely and told her where the toilets were then couldn't she? She didn't have to actively ignore her.

EasterRobin · 04/11/2017 20:04

Do you feel bold enough to also ask the midwife to use the term partner tomorrow as it is making you uncomfortable? It would probably mean a lot to the second mum that there is somebody else in the room that has her back... Even if you get nowhere with the midwife, she'll know that somebody supports her right to be treated as a valid parent.

It would mean a lot to me if were in her shoes.

OpenThePickles · 04/11/2017 20:05

So the midwife could have just smiled politely and told her where the toilets were then couldn't she? She didn't have to actively ignore her

Or she could have just not asked the silly question in the first place, she was demanding attention and trying to make it all about her.

QuackPorridgeBacon · 04/11/2017 20:06

I think both were in the wrong really. No harm in using partners or dads and partners. It could have been more politely addressed by the lesbian woman though. I wouldn’t have an issue though as I call my partner just that. We aren’t married so partner suits fine.

Coldilox · 04/11/2017 20:08

I assume they were unisex toilets if the MW had to ask the dads to use a separate one. So a toilet for the pregnant women, a toilet for the dads. Not clear st all where she was supposed to go.

MinervaSaidThar · 04/11/2017 20:08

It's immaterial that it takes a man (sperm) and woman to make a child, if the bloody dad is not there?!! Confused Make the mum amd mum feel welcome!!

QuackPorridgeBacon · 04/11/2017 20:08

I would have ignored the toilet question too. If not it probably would have had a sarcastic sounding answer. Such an unnecessary question to ask.

diddl · 04/11/2017 20:08

They are a couple though aren't they & the woman will be birthing partner & the other parent the same the dads?

Although the woman may have been a bit prickly, MW sounds awful.

Supposing one woman was pregnant with donor sperm-it wouldn't occur that her husband wouldn't be the dad, would it-because he would be doing the bringing up with his wife?

Anyoneanytimeanywhere · 04/11/2017 20:10

The irony of how times change. In previous generations men were not welcome to be at childbirth. It was ‘women’s business’ and another woman such as mother or sister was there to support. Now men are generally welcome. That’s great.
But whoever women choose to have as the non professional person supporting them in labour, this person should be respected and included.
Whether that’s biological dad, husband/partner, family member, partner/wife, friend.
Midwife was unreasonable and judgemental and this attitude isn’t fair for any woman and their birth partner who don’t fit in the box of biological father and biological mother.

peachgreen · 04/11/2017 20:10

I have lesbian friends who had a baby and they faced this kind of issue at every turn during pregnancy. Imagine how infuriating and exhausting it is to constantly be undermined in that way. Pregnancy is hard enough without having to put up with that.

stitchglitched · 04/11/2017 20:15

The toilet question wasn't stupid. One toilet was allocated to the men and the other to the pregnant women. Where should she go? Sounds like the MW was excluding the woman deliberately.

OpenThePickles · 04/11/2017 20:24

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Original poster
Neoflex · 04/11/2017 20:25

Unisex toilet. As in it is a building with a toilet here and a toilet there with no clear signage.

My dh is a lot more bold than I am and we've been speaking about it a lot this evening. He decided he will mention at the start that while he is the baby's father he doesn't mind what he's called during the session and he would be happy with partner for day 2.

OP posts:
PlateOfBiscuits · 04/11/2017 20:41

My dh is a lot more bold than I am and we've been speaking about it a lot this evening. He decided he will mention at the start that while he is the baby's father he doesn't mind what he's called during the session and he would be happy with partner for day 2.

I know this is not your battle to fight but honestly I’m disappointed that this meek statement is all you’re both going to say. If it were me, I would be complaining that the midwife a) was homophobic and b) made such an uncomfortable environment for you all.

JonSnowsWife · 04/11/2017 20:45

Or she could have just not asked the silly question in the first place, she was demanding attention and trying to make it all about her.

Right, so that is silly but some midwife with a stick still up her arse from the 1930s refusing to use the term partner so she didn't offend the delicate dads isn't?

Okay then.

Confused

Also. It isn't a silly question. It sounds like she was making the point of asking which toilet she would use given the midwife was refusing to validate her as a gender either way, or any sort ot human being really by the sounds of it.

JonSnowsWife · 04/11/2017 20:46

she was demanding attention and trying to make it all about her.

She wasn't demanding attention. She was expecting to be treated as part of a couple. Which she was one half of.

Blondephantom · 04/11/2017 20:47

Openthepickles, I’m afraid I don’t. Was she meant to use the same one as the pregnant ladies, when the men had been asked not to so as not to keep a pregnant lady waiting or was she meant to use the same one as the men? Unless they were marked as ladies and men it really isn’t obvious. It doesn’t sound as if they were marked as such or the midwife/course leader would have simply said the ladies toilet is here and the men’s is down the hall. Or there is a ladies toilet please save this for the pregnant ladies and another ladies and a men’s toilet down the corridor.

It really isn’t difficult to include people and make them feel welcome. I’d have asked if the couple had set parenting names in mind. Say the mum carrying was to be mum and the other partner mummy, for example. You could use ‘dads and mummy’. Or ‘labouring mums’ and ‘support people’. What if there was a lady who was a surrogate or had decided to give her child up for adoption. She may not be comfortable with ‘mum’.

My husband goes by Papa rather than Dad or Daddy. When our little girl was in the nicu, all the nurses referred to him as Papa to our little girl. It seems such a tiny thing but it made a huge difference to how welcome he felt. We really felt cared for.

I would imagine that walking into a room where most couples were mum and dad was very difficult for those ladies. Surely the person running the course should have been doing her best to make sure everybody felt welcome. It doesn’t take Einstein to figure out that saying Dads to use one loo and the pregnant ladies another leaves out female support partners.

Swipe left for the next trending thread