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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Manafort Destiny? Trump continued

986 replies

PerkingFaintly · 30/10/2017 13:07

Where will the charges against Manafort lead? Whose shredders are overheating today? And most importantly, when will the Tweetstorm-from-the-loo start?

Previous thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3061258-FMOTUS-F-ing-Moron-of-the-United-States-Trump-thread-continued?pg=1

OP posts:
Thread gallery
58
PainInTheEerie · 30/10/2017 21:44

Manu Raju
@mkraju
Lindsey Graham just now: "It's OK to talk to Russians, it's not OK to get help from them for your campaign."

lionheart · 30/10/2017 21:49

Steve Reilly‏Verified account
@BySteveReilly

U.S. District Court for D.C. has four sealed cases in its docket with case numbers between Papadopoulos' (182) and Manafort's (201).

PainInTheEerie · 30/10/2017 21:54

In response to that lion renato’s posted

Renato Mariotti
Renato Mariotti
@renato_mariotti
This does not necessarily mean that they relate to Mueller’s investigation. Mueller will do more but we should be patient.

lionheart · 30/10/2017 21:54

George.

www.justice.gov/file/1007346/download

lionheart · 30/10/2017 22:07

The joy of short and long twitter on that SHS presser.

Ana Navarro‏Verified account @ananavarro 4h4 hours ago
More
What the hell is Sarah Huckabee Sanders talking about? 2 Trump associates indicted, 1 plead guilty and she’s singing “99 Beers on the Wall”

Seth Abramson‏Verified account

(THREAD) This is an itemized list of every lie Sarah Huckabee Sanders told America on behalf of the President in her press briefing today.

1/ Trump has no intention or plan to fire Mueller. FALSE. Trump told the NYT that if Mueller crosses a certain "red line" he could be fired.
61 replies . 892 retweets 3,935 likes

2/ The charges and plea announced today had "nothing to do with the President's campaign or campaign activity." FALSE. And here's why:

3/ Manafort lied to the FBI while Trump's Campaign Manager and used his illegally gotten, Putin-linked funds to work for Trump "for free."

4/ So Trump was the direct beneficiary—to the tune of saving many millions in consulting fees—of the fact Manafort got money from Russia.

5/ All Papadopoulos' lies—which he's plead to—involved high-ranking Trump officials, Trump campaign activity, and protecting Trump himself.

6/ "There's clear evidence" Clinton colluded with Russian intelligence. FALSE. This is false on almost too many grounds to mention. A start:

7/ Clinton's camp continued payments started by Republicans to a firm that contracted with another firm whose sources were non-FSB.

8/ The dossier "influenced" the election. FALSE. Barring 1 article, the dossier wasn't reported on in any significant way until January '17.

9/ The dossier "smears" the President. FALSE. Every piece of information in the dossier that can be confirmed so far has been confirmed.

10/ Clinton's camp didn't know what research they would receive and had nothing to do with its collection. And—the FBI believes the dossier.

11/ There's been no evidence of Trump-Russia collusion. FALSE. Not only is the Papadopoulos plea a smoking gun—Sessions' perjuries were too.

12/ Indeed—both the ongoing secret sanctions negotiations between Trump and Russia and the GOP platform change were the result of collusion.

13/ Papadopoulos is in trouble only for not telling the truth. FALSE. The WH implies the underlying activities were all okay. They were not.

14/ Papadopoulos plead to Making False Statements so that he wouldn't have to plead to greater charges and could cooperate with the FBI.

15/ There's no "official capacity" in which the campaign was involved with Papadopoulos' acts. FALSE—his actions were campaign-sanctioned.

16/ The Manafort/Gates indictments deal with crimes in a time "well before" the Trump campaign existed. FALSE. Both were ongoing in 2015.

17/ Papadopoulos had a "limited" campaign role. FALSE. He was a top adviser and a primary liaison to other nations on Trump's Russia policy.

18/ Papadopoulos went overseas for Trump and was one of the only NatSec team members kept on when the team disbanded in late July of 2016.

19/ Papadopoulos was giving interviews on Trump's Russia policy to Russian media as late—possibly later—than late September of 2016.

20/ All told, George Papadopoulos worked for Trump for at least seven months of the eleven-month campaign primary/general "voting" season.

22/ Papadopoulos' outreach on the Kremlin's behalf was "repeatedly denied." FALSE. At all turns he was openly, clearly encouraged by emails.

23/ Papadopoulos had no role in extra-campaign outreach. FALSE—he went to Israel for Trump, talked to Russian media for Trump and much else.

24/ And of course we know from his sworn plea docs that "high-ranking campaign officials" authorized him to speak to (other) Kremlin agents.

25/ "We expect Mueller to conclude his work soon." FALSE. Recent articles confirm Trump and his lawyers are battening down for a long haul.

26/ Sanders says Trump's last Manafort contact was in February. TRUE/FALSE? In this case it doesn't matter—because it's damning. Here's why:

27/ We were told Manafort called Priebus just before the inauguration—to urge Trump to release dirt on HRC—because he couldn't access Trump.

28/ The campaign wanted to distance Trump from Manafort and the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting by saying Manafort could not access Trump.

29/ Today Sanders inadvertently revealed that Manafort was still able to talk to Trump—and we know his subject was "HRC dirt"—in February.

30/ Sanders now says that Donald Trump can't recall anything about his March 31st, 2016 meeting at Trump International Hotel in DC. FALSE.

31/ Trump is always lauding his perfect memory and appears to have excellent recall for (for instance) any person who has ever slighted him.

32/ Moreover, others at the TIHDC meeting have excellent recall: they told The Daily Caller Trump was "flattered" by Papadopoulos' proposal.

33/ Sanders says she's had "no conversations" with Trump on pardons. FALSE. We know Trump has discussed the pardon power with his top aides.

34/ Sanders: it's "not clear how Sessions could be said to be involved" in the Papadopoulos case. FALSE—Sessions was the kid's supervisor.

35/ Moreover, Sessions received at least some—maybe all—of Papadopoulos' March (and April, and May) emails. And he heard him at the TIHDC.

36/ Sanders says she's not sure when Trump first heard of the stolen emails. Possibly TRUE, but Papadopoulos implies it was in April 2016.

37/ Sanders: the indictments/plea "don't have anything to do with us." FALSE. See preceding tweets—this is, simply put, an outrageous lie.

38/ Papadopoulos "volunteered" for Trump's NatSec Advisory Committee. FALSE. He was recruited by Sam Clovis; he didn't come out of nowhere.

39/ This push to make Papadopoulos—an unqualified kid in touch with Trump's pal Millian—sound like a mere intern is absolutely outrageous.

40/ Papadopoulos was chosen by Trump's team, then featured by Trump in print/pictures, then promoted by Trump to a larger Russia role.

41/ Trump's NatSec Committee "met only once"? FALSE. They were in constant contact via email threads—so this is a deeply misleading claim.

42/ "He [Papadopoulos] wasn't responded to in any way when he reached out"—FALSE—for months he was responded to throughout the campaign.

43/ Sanders says the dossier is "fake information" and the Clinton campaign knew that. FALSE. The dossier is substantially verified and...

44/ ...everyone who's looked at the dossier, including Steele, Fusion GPS, FBI, and others in law enforcement have believed it to be true.

45/ So the idea the Clinton campaign was in a position to know "false" a dossier that (a) is true and (b) the FBI believed true, is crazy.

46/ Trump was "without a lot of reaction" when he learned of Mueller's indictments. FALSE. And—uh—I'm just going to post this picture here:

47/ BREAKING NEWS—thread interruption—Manafort's bail has been set at $10 million. Remember, he may have to make a showing to court to post.

48/ BREAKING NEWS (cont)—In financial crime cases, the court must know the bail money isn't a fruit of the crime. Mueller loves this bail.

49/ BREAKING NEWS (cont. 2)—As I noted earlier today, any bail that keeps Manafort behind bars ups the pressure on him to cooperate now.

50/ SHS says when Trump hired Papadopoulos, the latter was a "seasoned operative." FALSE. All accounts say he lacked meaningful credentials.

51/ "We have indications" the probe will wrap up soon, Sanders says. FALSE. They're relying on Christie, it seems, who has/cites no sources.

52/ Trump called Papadopoulos an "excellent guy" in a pro forma way. FALSE. He said his team was the best, and "sold" Papadopoulos as such.

53/ The other possibility is that he was lying about knowing who Papadopoulos was—which he was claiming to—but that's not the WH line now.

54/ Apologies to all—another break for an interview, and then I'll finish up this thread. Anyone been counting up the Huckabee Sanders lies?

55/ Sanders says she's "not aware" of Trump aides speaking with Papadopoulos about Kremlin meetings. FALSE—she read Papadopoulos' affidavit.

56/ As a WH Press Secretary publicly pledged to telling media the truth, she isn't entitled to pretend she hasn't read Papadopoulos' plea.

Rainbunny · 30/10/2017 22:16

Goody, the fun is beginning!

I bet those idiots inside the white house are shitting themselves right now, especially since it like that Papadopoulos guy has been cooperating with the FBI and likely been wearing a wire to record any conversations he may have had with people over the last 3 months. I'm praying that evidence against Kushner and Donald Trump Jr. was uncovered, much better to hurt Trump through his slimy family since it will be much harder to get him directly.

You just know that Kushner, Trump Jr. et al are just too stupid to NOT have contacted Papadopoulos after he was initially interviewed by the FBI to find out what he might have said to them. Hope this develops quickly, I have an awkward Thanksgiving dinner to attend with my Trumpis inlaws this year Grin

cozietoesie · 30/10/2017 22:17

Gosh. Just a quick read of that download and I could see the smoke signals.

PainInTheEerie · 30/10/2017 22:24

mieke eoyang‏ @MiekeEoyang

Ok, so everyone's got their hot takes on the #indictments today, sorry to be a little slow, but wanted to reflect.
Of the two indictments, the Manafort one is more buzzy, but it actually is less significant. Papadopolous is the bigger deal. 2/
Yes, Manafort got paid off by Yanukovich, who eventually fled to Russia, laundering $17M, and a variety of other crimes. 3/
But the Manafort indictment doesn't actually touch Trump or the campaign (as WH Spox noted). It's not everything they could get on him 4/
So there's still more that Manafort can offer Mueller, and note, there's no plea agreement filed here yet, like with Papadopolous. 5/
Papadopolous was arrested in mid-July, and only finalized the plea agreement in early October. That's a long time to negotiate/sing. 6/
More importantly, Papadopolous indictment is for actions DURING the campaign. He was trying to connect the Russians to Trump campaign. 7/
As @emptywheel notes, Papadopolous raised Russian interest to other Trump foreign policy advisors, like Sessions. theintercept.com/2017/10/30/jeff-sessions-indictment-bad-news-for-attorney-general/ … 8/
Read the Papadopolous indictment. It's what an espionage recruitment looks like -- flattery of someone w/access, invitations to visit. 9/
Papadopolous testimony can take team Mueller into the campaign's activities itself, to get to a bigger fish -- Flynn. 10/
And Flynn then takes you into the Oval Office, and potential actions that could be considered impeachable offenses 11/
We already know that the President wants immunity for Flynn. He asked Congress to give it via tweet. 12/
Flynn is just as shady in dealings w/repressive governments. See, e.g. Turkey.

AND Flynn eventually turns his bosses. It's his MO. 13/
Flynn turned on GWB w/ his report on intelligence in Afghanistan. Flynn turned on Obama after being J2, joining Trump. Loyal, he is not. 14/
That Flynn isn't in this batch of indictments is significant. It means there's way more to come. & Trump knows it. 15/
These indictments might be a test to see what Trump does. Is he going to start trying to pardon people? Or does he cut 'em loose? 16/
WH Spox statements today suggests that Trump is cutting 'em loose, hoping they're the sacrificial lambs. "It's not the campaign..." 17/
But the message that sends to the other witnesses is that Trump will not save you. He's only out to save himself. Maybe Ivanka. 18/
While the WH & Ty Cobb think they can skate by today, Bannon knows better. He knows Mueller is relentless. So Bannon's coming for him. 19/
Expect to see Bannon use Congress to shut down Mueller. Trying to cut the budget, limit the scope, etc. This is where you come in. 20/
This is where everyone in America needs to let their member of Congress know that they will not stand for interfering with Mueller. 21/
It's not just that you should oppose firing Mueller. But also oppose cutting his budget, staff or limiting scope. @make5calls can help. 22/
People should know that @RonDeSantisFL and others are trying to prevent Mueller from getting to the truth. 23/
When a hostile foreign power tries to recruit a campaign advisor like Papadopolous & finds a willing hand, we need an investigation. 24/
So make sure your member of Congress, Republican or Democrat knows that this isn't over & you want Mueller to continue. For America.

PainInTheEerie · 30/10/2017 22:26

Kyle Griffin @kylegriffin1

Unsealed D.C. court opinion: U.S. is investigating "potential collusion", probe is a "matter of national importance" bit.ly/2gX2wJX

PainInTheEerie · 30/10/2017 22:30

Russian content on Facebook may have reached 126 million users — far more than first disclosed, company says

www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/2017/10/30/4509587e-bd84-11e7-97d9-bdab5a0ab381_story.html?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.6c5410a2899b

Facebook plans to tell lawmakers on Tuesday that 126 million of its users may have seen content produced and circulated by Russian operatives, many times more than what the company previously disclosed about the reach of the disinformation campaign during the 2016 presidential election, according to documents obtained by the Washington Post.

Google on Monday acknowledged for the first time that its platforms were also compromised, revealing that Russian trolls uploaded over a thousand videos to YouTube on 18 different channels.

The disclosures, which are contained in draft testimonies obtained by The Washington Post ahead of three Capitol Hill hearings this week, come as tech giants face mounting pressure to more fully investigate how Russians used their platforms to influence American voters and reveal more of their findings to the public.

Saffronwblue · 30/10/2017 22:38

Good times! Only regret is that it happens when I am snowed under with work and family,

If you haven't seen this I highly recommend it for a happy couple of minutes.
www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/10/29/video-trumps-downfall-went-viral-just-beautifully-done/

cozietoesie · 30/10/2017 22:43

Strewth, Pain.

lionheart · 30/10/2017 23:45

Lovely juxtaposition.

Chris Hayes‏Verified account
@chrislhayes

Tonight, Carter Page will joint me live, on-set to react today's indictments and guilty plea.

Renato Mariotti‏Verified account @renato_mariotti 17m17 minutes ago

Carter Page is about to make one of the biggest mistakes of his life. Everything he says on @chrislhayes will be recorded by the FBI.

lionheart · 30/10/2017 23:51

Ships passing in the night when it is so foggy they can barely see each other and in any case, don't remember a thing.

Manafort Destiny? Trump continued
cozietoesie · 30/10/2017 23:59

Page may feel that he has no choice but to appear - or they (temporarily) believe that it’s ‘business as usual’.

lionheart · 31/10/2017 00:02

Unlike ^What tweets?"Jared.

cozietoesie · 31/10/2017 00:15

There’s something about ‘United States of America’ v................

lionheart · 31/10/2017 00:22

One answer to what Fox got up to today.

www.thedailybeast.com/how-fox-and-friends-comforted-its-viewers-trump-amid-manafort-news

lionheart · 31/10/2017 00:29

Blimey.

Steve Marmel‏Verified account @Marmel 14h14 hours ago
More
Trump: 400K new "followers" over the last few days.
The bots are lined up and ready to go, folks.
Be prepared.

cozietoesie · 31/10/2017 00:31

Remind me. When was Papadolous interviewed by Mr M’s people?

cozietoesie · 31/10/2017 00:32

Sorry. Papadopoulos.

cozietoesie · 31/10/2017 00:32

I give up.

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