To point out that Martin Clunes is a twat of the first order?

[Battleax]

www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/4776183/martin-clunes-actress-flirting-accusation/

The problem with the Sun and the Mail is, irritatingly enough, they're fast at getting the news out. They were the only two that had the story when I was doing my morning news round at 6am.

Anyway, is this better;

metro.co.uk/2017/10/27/martin-clunes-accuses-actresses-of-draping-themselves-over-producers-amid-weinstein-scandal-7031138/

Or this?

uk.news.yahoo.com/martin-clunes-slams-actresses-flirting-harvey-weinstein-form-prostitution-120228601.html

Can I point out that the film industry remains in thrall to "creative" and powerful men. While women do a lot of the organising (production management etc) men still run things. And that means they choose the scripts, and the scripts have few parts for women compared to men. So, men are economically in control, and parts for women are, in comparison to men, rare. In addition, if you want a lead female role you have to be young, beautiful and very thin. So this is the set up in which actresses "drape and flirt"..
Blaming them is rather like calling an artists model in 19th century France a predator for getting her kit off.
The film industry is utterly feudal and utterly weighted against women.

And if Martin Clunes was making that comment in response to the Weinstein assaults then he is an arsehole.
(And I thought the expression was the first order! All these years!)

On the subject of Clunes, I am not at all surprised he if is acting a bit of a twat. There was a very unpleasant video doing the rounds where a motorcyclist was looking for a parking spot at a supermarket and Clunes had abandoned his lumbering great Aston/Porsche in it, meaning the motorcyclist couldn't park in the allotted space. Clunes was incredibly arrogant and arsey about it and I went right off him after that, the entitled shit.
Shame, because I had previously been a fan.

They're both "valid" idioms.

www.english-for-students.com/of-the-first-order.html

www.dictionary.com/browse/first-water

Thank God I thought I was going mad!

Sorry to join in to the semantic debate but 'of the first order' is a more commonly used phrase than 'of the first water' that is more direct in its meaning - ie a shit of the first order is a prize shit or best in class.

Not that impressed with Clunes' statement - yes its true sex and flirtation is used by people in all sorts of walks of life but Weinstein went way beyond the free exchange of favours and I'm not sure if 'Mr Men Behaving Badly's comments have the effect of diminishing the experiences of women being put in unwanted positions of sexual pressure, manipulation and experiencing disgusting or illegal assault. Err hello?

If it's true, he is indeed a twat of the first order.

Also I do have to say that the whole Weinstein affair has underlined for me how far women are away from equality in society - of course in the film, entertainment, music and modelling industries but also across the board in all walks of life. As a CEO myself I realise what a minority I am in and how hard it is for women to be judged in the same light as men (are we seen as bitchy, or power hungry, emotional or feisty as averse to authoritive, charismatic and assured - yes indeed we are! And have I been asked illegal questions at interview - like what are your plans for have children, how do you manage to juggle children and work or what does your husband think of you working - yes indeed I have).

So whilst such huge inequalities exist some women will feel forced to trade on their sexual assets. When more women are in positions of power then this will be less likely to be the currency of such transactions. But we need to keep fighting and shaming those that exploit the imbalance of power, since they will continue to deny talent and merit its place and enforce the glass ceiling.

If it's a known fact that a significant proportion of men make promotion decisions based on their own sexual needs, surely men can't be trusted in positions of power? They're totally unreliable.

* That there have been, and are, a great many women in the entertainment business willing to blow/screw men for a part or a career bump is without question, surely?*

And why is that?
Why do people just accept it like it’s another day at the office?
Why do women feel they need to do that?
Why does it “work”?
Why is it so common place that even a scamming nobody can demand sexual favours in order to give a girl her “big break”?

Some women, like the "Kartrashiens" or Anna Nicole Smith are/ were quite happy to be wank fodder for men, it makes them a hell of a lot of money and newspaper print, people use other people for financial gain, however, it is always a matter of consent though, above everything else. The women HW assaulted did not consent to be manhandled or raped and that is the difference.

If it's a known fact that a significant proportion of men make promotion decisions based on their own sexual needs, surely men can't be trusted in positions of power? They're totally unreliable.

True.

LOL at 'Pervy Wankstain'. If the hat fits...

Very depressing thread. If women are ‘prostituting themselves’ to get the top, the only question you should be asking is why?

Do you seriously think any woman would willingly sleep with someone they don’t want to, if there wasn’t an inherent power dynamic that forces them to commodify their bodies?

Quite, Datun.

No one seems able or willing to answer the question “why IS that?”

If the expectation of sex, female attention, women looking and acting in an agreeable way (male entitlement) didn’t exist. Women wouldn’t have to decide whether or not they were, ‘happy with it’.

Sex being exchanged for career opportunities is coercion. Is exploitation. Is an abuse of power.

If it’s the case that the career doesn’t happen unless the sex does, what does that tell us about the power dynamic between the person seeking work/a career and the person who has the work/career to give.

If a person is coerced into a sexual act when they wouldn’t usually have chosen to engage in that way, then they have been raped or assaulted.

The myriad ways that victims choose to tell it to themselves has no bearing on that. So no, it isn’t true that some women are ‘happy to sleep their way to success’ or whatever it was.

I think the difference is that some women (and some men too) will take the proactive role here. ie they don't wait to be asked or 'coerced' , they are seeking an advantage over what they see as their 'competitors'.
I knew a woman like this, she was perfectly happy to have sex with men to get something she wanted.
Some people just don't see sex as a big deal, it's just something that you do, nothing traumatic about it.

*so no, it isn't true that some women are happy to sleep their way to success'
It's not really up to you to decide what other people are happy to do with their own bodies.

His comments were very foolish and thankfully this will haunt him because women know exactly what men like he is mean. We get it all the time when men make excuses for other men = naughty boy, couldn't help himself, she asked for it etc etc.. Yet the reality is men in positions of power abusing that power over women. If we ever get to equality it will happen less.

noeffingidea

Your name suits you.

Did you miss the bit where I explained that if men weren’t in a position to exchange sex for favours there would be no need for people to decide if they are happy or unhappy with it.

Likewise with the woman who ‘was perfectly happy to have sex with men to get something she wanted’.

Read it again, or don’t. But you are spectacularly missing the point.

I’m talking about the ‘entertainment’ industry - which is, in the main, based on sex.
Boy bands & girl bands are put together because they’re all young, good looking & ‘sexy’ - sex sells in this industry

That was not really what you were talking about, though, was it?

Also I do have to say that the whole Weinstein affair has underlined for me how far women are away from equality in society - of course in the film, entertainment, music and modelling industries but also across the board in all walks of life. As a CEO myself I realise what a minority I am in and how hard it is for women to be judged in the same light as men (are we seen as bitchy, or power hungry, emotional or feisty as averse to authoritive, charismatic and assured - yes indeed we are! And have I been asked illegal questions at interview - like what are your plans for have children, how do you manage to juggle children and work or what does your husband think of you working - yes indeed I have).

So whilst such huge inequalities exist some women will feel forced to trade on their sexual assets. When more women are in positions of power then this will be less likely to be the currency of such transactions. But we need to keep fighting and shaming those that exploit the imbalance of power, since they will continue to deny talent and merit its place and enforce the glass ceiling.

Exactly, Garlic (and most women anyway don't trade on their sexual assets in most work situations anyway. Was chatting to daughter yesterday on this looking at a company's board - every single one male which even that is pretty rare and yet tons of women at the bottom end, much worse even than my area - law where women have about 20% of the higher paid equity partnerships when it should be more like 50%).