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AIBU?

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Original poster

To point out that Martin Clunes is a twat of the first order?

199 replies

Battleax · 27/10/2017 06:39

www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/4776183/martin-clunes-actress-flirting-accusation/

OP posts:
JustHope · 27/10/2017 08:13

YABU
People have always flirted and slept their way to getting what they want. I can imagine that this is something that happens a lot in modelling and acting. Yes there are creeps like Weinstein that take advantage and behave appallingly but let’s not pretend that there aren’t also women who use what they’ve got to get what they want.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 27/10/2017 08:16

He's right though, isn't he?

There are many women prepared to flirt (and more!) in order to achieve what they want.

That doesn't make coerced sexual activity acceptable, but it does mean that we need to be aware that there are women (and men) who will do this, and that not everything is clear-cut.

whiskyowl · 27/10/2017 08:17

First water = of the first class. Often used approvingly (a diamond of the first water, a poet of the first water), but can be used critically (a perv of the first water).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_water

TheAntiBoop · 27/10/2017 08:18

The problem with women who are willing to do this is that they make it so much harder for everyone else - sex suddenly becomes a valid currency and those unwilling to barter with it will either lose out on roles or face a Weinstein

Collaborate · 27/10/2017 08:18

If, in the context of the HW allegations, you want to talk about the problem of some women sleeping their way to the top instead of sexual assault and rape, you're part of the problem.

MsJuniper · 27/10/2017 08:18

I also think that women willingly offering sex/sexual activity to get ahead in their career is nothing like women who are not willing being pressurised, assaulted, raped or being blacklisted.

It may not be exactly the same but it all comes from the same culture of patriarchy/misogyny.** Are they “willingly” offering sex or have they been led to believe that’s the only way they can get ahead? Have the men in this situation encouraged this belief through their actions before or after the consensual act? Has society and the media had a part to play?

SchadenfreudePersonified · 27/10/2017 08:18

"Of the first water" is a common expression (or so I thought).

PG Wodehouse used it frequently in his Jeeves and Wooster books.

CoolCarrie · 27/10/2017 08:22

He isn't a twat, he made a reasonable observation. Just because the HW scandal has shown how women are victims of sexual abuse doesn't mean that many women do use their wiles to get what they want. It has always been the case, don't make the mistake of thinking otherwise.

FlowerPot1234 · 27/10/2017 08:23

But he's absolutely correct.

The "partnership" between producers and actresses has been known for years. He is quite correct to say it's a form of prostitution.

BMW6 · 27/10/2017 08:24

YABU - some women have sometimes used sex to get something they want from a man!
I have known two who set out to seduce to gain promotion - they were quite open about it.

TheAntiBoop · 27/10/2017 08:25

the whole entertainment industry is revolting on this and I'm sure the number of unknown young women and men who have been spat out after being used and abused dwarfs the number of women who happily use their sexuality to get ahead. I'm not blaming them for a culture that has existed for as long as Hollywood has - they're using it to their advantage

The recent toback disclosures show how the industry hasn't changed at all. Wonder what will happen to Polanski etc though?

flyingpigsinclover · 27/10/2017 08:25

I'm inclined not to view his comments favourably but it looks like he is stating fact rather then blaming the women for it. It did used to be very much like that but what the article fails to mention is that it was the culture at the time and it was very much expected, women who were feminists and so against it were ridiculed as not being feminine and as man haters.

BlueLegume · 27/10/2017 08:25

DH made a really good point about this recently. He says how on earth are men (and women) going to operate as we move on from the Weinstein, and other similar cases. He rightly said it is perfectly normal for men and women to present their best version of themselves to the opposite sex be it socially or in the workplace. This generally involves a degree of flirtatious behaviour or to use his word “fawning”. So will in the future every encounter have a caveat saying I’m flirting and fawning towards you but at no cost read anything into it as I may accuse you of assault or rape in 10years if you don’t deliver exactly what was suggested at the point we met and I flirted with you. It’s very hard as Weinstein and his ilk are a disgrace but if we learn anything surely it’s to empower men and women to read situations better - and to realise when an assault is a bad experience that could’ve been avoided - I will no doubt be flamed for that but hopefully the sentiment that you have got to protect yourself by not putting yourself in vulnerable situations is crucial. I have no idea how anyone in the modern world can socialise in or out of the workplace without constantly worrying about being accused of crossing an unmarked line any more.

OpalIridescence · 27/10/2017 08:26

A talented actress should not need to do any thing other than audition well to further career.
I think the point is being missed that women are expectedto use and sell their looks and bodies to gain opportunities.

Unless the news is about to break that all the successful male actors had to go through a session with an unattractive, all powerful Hollywood female sexpest who you must never upset to get a role then it is clear this is about power.

Power as in who has it, who needs it and the differences in what they must do to get it.
Or yeah we could just all agree women can be such sluts....yawn

LoniceraJaponica · 27/10/2017 08:27

""Of the first water" is a common expression"

I have never heard it before, and I consider myself reasonably well read. Maybe it is regional? (I'm in Yorkshire)

surferjet · 27/10/2017 08:28

It’s probably worse in the music industry - I wonder how many young women ( & men probably) have thrown themselves at Simon Cowell? 1000’s.

Piggywaspushed · 27/10/2017 08:31

'of the fist water' is very 1930s/40s. Not regional.

It is sued in the marvellous TV play Ptang yang Kipperbang:

'Duckworth you are a (something, can't remember what) ' says the PT teacher
'Yes Sir'
'Of the first what, Duckworth?'
'Of the first water , Sir'
'That is correct Duckworth.'

twattymctwatterson · 27/10/2017 08:33

He’s coming out with this now for a very specific reason. Essentially he wants to try to avert the blame away from people who are using their power to abuse women and deflect it on to the victims who MUST be doing something to bring this on themselves

Piggywaspushed · 27/10/2017 08:33

of the first water obviously I meant!

And used ...

UrsulaPandress · 27/10/2017 08:37

I've never heard 'first water' either.

I am more confused as to why he made these comments whilst supporting a riding stables.

FlowerPot1234 · 27/10/2017 08:38

twattymctwatterson

He’s coming out with this now for a very specific reason. Essentially he wants to try to avert the blame away from people who are using their power to abuse women and deflect it on to the victims who MUST be doing something to bring this on themselves

What evidence do you have that he is doing this? What reason would he have for doing this?

What about the more likely possibility that he is doing this to highlight that many women do prostitute themselves with producers to get parts and hence to recognise that some of the women who interacted with Weinstein did this?

Piggywaspushed · 27/10/2017 08:38

I don't think Clunes actually says anything does he? The 'comments' are full of awkward pauses and incomplete sentences! Sounds like The Sun just attempted to get anyone semi famous to comment and he tried not to fall for it but they reported it anyway!

It's more interesting that there is a photo of a naked female reality star to the right of the article. Classic Sun.

LoniceraJaponica · 27/10/2017 08:39

Not necessarily twatty. He may be, but essentially he will be right about some people. Wasn't it Madonna who publicly admitted that losing her virginity was a calculated move to get into the music industry?

whiskyowl · 27/10/2017 08:39

I probably use 'of the first water' because I'm fairly up on eighteenth century stuff!! Blush

Sorry for derailing the thread with my antique expressions! Blush

IfYouGoDownToTheWoodsToday · 27/10/2017 08:40

“He rightly said it’s perfectly normal for men and women to present their best version of themselves to the opposite sex be it socially or in the workplace. This generally involves a degree of flirtatious behaviour or to use his word “fawning”. So will in the future every encounter have a caveat saying I’m flirting and fawning towards you but at no cost read anything into it as I may accuse you of assault or rape in 10years if you don’t deliver exactly what was suggested at the point we met and I flirted with you”

Hmm. No, it really is NOT “perfectly normal” to flirt or “fawn” with members of the opposite sex in the workplace.