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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To point out that Martin Clunes is a twat of the first order?

199 replies

Battleax · 27/10/2017 06:39

www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/4776183/martin-clunes-actress-flirting-accusation/

OP posts:
SeaWitchly · 27/10/2017 13:04

It happens in every industry, plenty of women prepared to sleep their way to the top

Really?

Oh so that's how woman can become managers, directors and CEOs!
So simple really.

Hmm
Uokbing · 27/10/2017 13:17

We are equal with men - and just as capable of being predatory.

98% of sex offenders are men. Sit down.

Whenyouseeit · 27/10/2017 13:20

I seriously felt nauseous at the husband who said men would have to be very careful because (not exact quote) '10 years down the line I'll accuse you of rape if you haven't delivered on your end of the deal'.

Which reads like an assumption these women are lying and making accusations out of spite. Yuck.

Agree with those who say if this is all MC can say about Weinstein, there's a big problem.

RebelFreddyVSRogueJason · 27/10/2017 13:24

If women sleep their way to the top they prostitute themselves.
If they don’t want to ,but the rapist in charge decide they should,they get raped or never advance in their career,or even worse get blacklisted.
If they don’t sleep their way to the top and still get there,people will assume they did anyways,especially the attractive ones.

But yeah everything is equal and women are predators and it’s all hunky dory.

AgathaOHara · 27/10/2017 13:39

That there have been, and are, a great many women in the entertainment business willing to blow/screw men for a part or a career bump is without question, surely?

To call this “rape” is quite despicable & is deeply insulting to those many, many women who actually have been assaulted.

Not all sexual encounters that happen for reasons other than romance are rape.

SmileEachDay · 27/10/2017 13:51

That there have been, and are, a great many women in the entertainment business willing to blow/screw men for a part or a career bump is without question, surely?

Why do you think that is, Agatha?

RidingWindhorses · 27/10/2017 13:56

Who is calling consensual sex rape? Confused

RidingWindhorses · 27/10/2017 14:01

That some women, and some men too, use their attractiveness to get ahead doesn't not excuse a man in a position of power using it to abuse young girls. Sickening to see these sort of comments defending Weinstein on Mumsnet. Hopefully you will bring your sons up better.

And daughters too. At the risk of sounding a bit Monty Python.

And know from Corey Feldman this is not simply an issue for young women in Hollywood.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 27/10/2017 14:04

I have also heard of women forced into sex in irder to keep their job

Its a shite state of affairs

contrary13 · 27/10/2017 14:15

honeyroar - I did say "who may or may not have been his wife". My daughter wouldn't know Ms Braithwaite from a random women in a bus queue, and I wasn't there. So I don't know if it was his wife dining with him that night... or a production assistant. What I do know, from what my daughter said, was that Clunes wouldn't allow the woman dining with him to speak whilst she was at the table, that he kept looking around as though bored out of his tiny, and that the woman ate with her head down and seemed embarrassed by his "chat" to/at my daughter. Perhaps, if this woman wasn't his wife... and, I repeat, I don't know if she was or not (although I would have recognosed Ms Braithwaite had I been)... it was an entirely different persona to that which you saw, when he was with her, on a flight, in an enclosed/trapped situation. In the industry, she's far more influential than he is, after all... and doesn't he work on a programme that she's involved in, and not a lot else these days?

My daughter is hoping to go into this industry (in production) at some point. A lot of the conversation between them, was winky-eyed "oh, well, you'll have to come and see me, then, won't you?!" innuendo. It was last year, so not when he was young. Or, indeed, at the pinnacle of any real success outside of 'Doc Martin' (which I hear, he's ludicrously rude to the runners upon the set of, incidentally). At the time, my daughter didn't know who he was. At all. She thought, to start off with, that he "was just some weird old man", and it was only when an older colleague filled her in who was sat in that section, that she realised he's on TV. She still doesn't care. He didn't touch her, simply made comments which, as a waitress, as a young woman, she says she's "used to".

She shouldn't have to be "used to" anything of the sort. No young person - be they male, female, not sure - should have to be. What sort of a world do we live in, that it's acceptable for a man old enough to be a young woman's grandfather to behave in such a way towards her?! For anyone to behave in such a way towards another?!

He shouldn't have weighed in on this argument. Especially not when it turns out, according to a PP, that he was verbally abusive to an ex-wife (I didn't even know he'd been married before, so that was an interesting read...). I dare say that there are many waitresses who could/can say "ah, but...!" about him. Which isn't a great start to a defence for such behaviour, really, is it, now?

contrary13 · 27/10/2017 14:17

*had I been there Blush

Battleax · 27/10/2017 14:33

I like the edit to his Wikipedia page;

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Clunes

OP posts:
UnicornRainbowColours · 27/10/2017 14:38

Ergh I pay little attention to anything in the scum....

whiskyowl · 27/10/2017 14:44

Props to whomever re-wrote that Wikipedia page. Brilliant. Grin

Battleax · 27/10/2017 14:47

It's gone again Sad

OP posts:
millifiori · 27/10/2017 14:53

What did the wiki edit say?

Battleax · 27/10/2017 14:55

"In 2017..." a summary of his recent remarks, then "this obviously make him an arsehole". 😂

OP posts:
Lweji · 27/10/2017 14:56

"Martin, in 2017, in light of the allegations against Harvey Weinstein, said he thought it was 'the same as prostitution' insinuating that the women involved were to blame for the abuse suffered. This clearly makes him an misogynist arsehole."

Edit history is preserved by Wikipedia.

Lweji · 27/10/2017 14:57
Lweji · 27/10/2017 15:00

whether not weather...

Battleax · 27/10/2017 15:00

Oh, do it Grin

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 27/10/2017 15:01

Strictly speaking consent is about whether you make a decision freely and without any duress. If you are being told, "if you don't sleep with me, you won't get the promotion", even if you do agree to sleep with someone that is not necessarily freely giving consent due to the circumstances.

If this is systematic and there is an expectation of this within the entire culture of an industry and a woman wouldn't touch a particular man with a barge pole under other circumstances then its a coercive culture. In other words, where the entire culture is regarded as like that, any woman sleeping with a man because she was under the impression that she had to for what ever reason, potentially does have a legal case retrospectively.

Under the law the statutory definition of consent is as follows:

Section 74 defines consent as 'if he agrees by choice, and has the freedom and capacity to make that choice'. Prosecutors should consider this in two stages. They are:

Whether a complainant had the capacity (i.e. the age and understanding) to make a choice about whether or not to take part in the sexual activity at the time in question.

Whether he or she was in a position to make that choice freely, and was not constrained in any way. Assuming that the complainant had both the freedom and capacity to consent, the crucial question is whether the complainant agrees to the activity by choice.

The law also states that the other person has to have a reasonable belief that consent has been properly and freely given.

This may or may not be upheld if it goes to court, as its down to the individual circumstances of exactly what happened and because its down to the burden of proof and the evidence given.

So, yes, 10 years after the fact the woman could come to realisation that she was compelled to sleep with someone because of the culture or the situation she was put in. Where the man has a defence is in whether he had reasonable belief that she was acting freely.

If a man is going around and blacklisting women or saying he'll blacklist them, he knows what he's doing, even if the woman doesn't initially believe that there is a problem with the situation. His actions are to impose power over the woman to coerce her to sleep with him, in a way that is not free. That's exactly why he is making those actions in the first place. And he knows it.

Just because society might have changed in a way that makes the woman realise she was not consenting freely, does not mean that 10 or 20 years ago, a crime was not committed. If a man set up a particular situation which exerted influence over the woman, the intent of doing that and knowing how that could affect how a woman and might react and reduce her 'resistance' knowingly was a problem at the time of the event. It reduces his defence of saying that he had reasonable grounds to believe that the woman did consent freely and without constraint.

Lots of out of court settlements might be a bit of a clue that there is an issue and that people need stop behaving in a certain way too. Hollywood has had a LOT of these. Why was there no code of conduct like there exists in other professions? The studios were all aware of these cases. Its was a bit of a hint there was an issue.

Anyone who has a powerful position, might be wise not to offer incentives to people they fancy or to chase people they work with. Hence why a lecturer sleeping with a student or a doctor sleeping with a patient are things which are frowned upon because of the power imbalance.

Lweji · 27/10/2017 15:02

Oh, do it

I don't want to be banned from Wikipedia.

ChelleDawg2020 · 27/10/2017 15:06

YABU. Some women are prepared to sleep their way to the top. He is not excusing or justifying abuse, he is pointing out that just because a powerful person sleeps with someone less powerful than them, it does not automatically mean that it is abuse or that the more powerful person was the instigator.

Anyway, it's the fucking Sun!

threesocksmeghan · 27/10/2017 15:07

I haven't RTFT but 'casting couches' as a term springs to mind.