To think Trump voters are judged in fairly?

[1DAD2KIDS]

I was out for dinner the other night with my mate, his old buisness friend from New York (she was in London for buisness) and a few others. Anyway talk got to politics and she said I voted for Trump. Well the table when silent (sort of like that Harry Enfield Women Know Your Limits video when the woman expresses a political opinion of her own).

Anyway it got me thinking and challenging the stereotype of a 'typical' Trump supporter. This lady is no redneck, she is a lovely, kind, highly educated and intelligent lady. When I think about it in effectively a two party system were you can either vote A or B is voting for Trump that looney? Trump is rightfully vilified but was Clinton wrongfully given a free ride? Is she not a sinister figure herself? People who live in glass houses spring to mind.

Look at the alternative, Clinton. Someone who was backed finanialy by people who oppress women, oppress homosexuality and genrally oppress human rights. She is a woman that often made provocative threats to start conflicts against countries like Iran. Someone I see as quite a sinister character with fingers in many pies. Most of all a vote for Hillary was a vote for no change (which is fine if your happy with the status quo).

I sort of see being a voter at the time as being stuck between a rock and a hard place. So if your an American who has been disenfranchised, have not benefited from or felt forgotten about by the last administration would you vote for more of the same? Or would you take a chance on someone who offers change? Personally I think Trump is a complete disaster and a massive turd. But I think we fail to understand many of the people who voted for him. Instead we just demonise them all as thick bigoted rednecs. We blame the voters but I see Trump as the symptom not the cause of America's problems. In a way I see his election as symptomatic of the failure of the last administration for many Americans. So why would anyone who felt failed by their government vote for more of the same? Oddly I think many people who voted for Trump would have voted for Burnie given the option (as if the powers that be in the democrats would have ever let him stand).

I think its important to note the people who our poloticians junp into bed with. Something I think that is lost with many.

Such as Russians, perhaps?

mother

Ive heard similar

I wouldn't align myself with such a man

OP the way you think is too nuanced for Mumsnet. There are no shades of grey here. Unless the topic is something like whether or not we should feel sorry for terrorists of course.

OP the way you think is too nuanced for Mumsnet. There are no shades of grey here

Bollocks to that. There is no shade of grey here: everyone knew what an appalling prospect Trump was before they voted for him. There is no nuance to him at all.

WhooooAmI24601 yes I agree. But to be fair both Clinton and (quietly possibly in view of evidence forming forward) Trump have been backed by dark overseas regimes.

Could not agree more. I vote left here but would be a Republican in America as first and foremost I am a Libertarian not a Statist x

I get what your trying to say that people wanted change and there are people that have been quite literally left behind and are completely disenfranchised and want another option but for them to think Trump was it? is just unfathomable. Your dinner companion that voted for trump did people ask her why? What did she expect him to do that would change things? How was she able to reconcile the misogyny, homophobia, racism etc etc. When people voted for him they have to accept that they voted for the whole package they can't just pick the bits they like and ignore the rest because that is really really irresponsible. So if you vote for a racist, homophobic, misogynist, ignorant liar of a candidate well why are you surprised that people think that's what you are like too because you supported it.

But know one seems to address the reasons why he was popular.

Really? I have read loads of articles on this very topic.

I have a sort of friend who voted for Trump, and who complained bitterly on social media that she felt unfairly judged in the aftermath, as she had a right to vote for whomever she chose. The responses she got were along the lines of "you have the right to cast any vote you please and we have the right to judge you for that".
When it comes to Trump voters, I think the old saying' if you lie down with dogs, you rise with fleas' is appropriate.

In general, judging others voting choices, if they choose to share them, is always appropriate. I voted Labour at the last GE, will vote Labour at the next one. I might totally disagree with them, but some people genuinely believe the current incarnation of Labour would be a disaster in government. They would genuinely see me as voting to bring such a disaster about, and they would have every right to judge me for that.

Did anyone at the dinner table actually challenge your lovely polite friend on her decision to vote for a man who openly admitted to sexual assaults on women? Anyone mention it at all? I would be really interested to know a trump voters excuses reasoning when there is recorded proof of him admitting this FFS?!

But if both sides are equally backed by shady folk, you have to look more clearly at their behaviour, their policies and the odds of them successfully leading the country for a term. And, as others have said, Clinton was still the better candidate. It's like choosing between eating a shit sandwich or sniffing a shit sandwich; your face will be full of shit whichever you choose but at least you wouldn't have shit in your teeth with Clinton in control.

It doesn't really matter how nuanced anyone tries to make it. Trump is a truly dreadful excuse for a human being and anyone who voted for him is either stupid, deeply unpleasant, hugely selfish or racist.
I get that some people were just so blindsided by the freak show of his campaign that they voted for him just for the preposterousness of it all - a kind of unfunny boaty McBoatface thing, but he is a racist, dangerous, unstable bully and any excuses aren't really going to cut it now

I could, barely, understand why anyone could vote for Trump, as they could think at the time that GOP could control him and he'd become more measured and presidential. Deluded, but it's common.

What I don't understand is, seeing the reality of him as President, how he can even remotely be compared to Clinton. Just baffling.

If you vote for corrupt, racists bigots then you are either these things too or really quite stupid (or maybe both). You are not "lovely" even if you bake cookies for your grandchildren or help out at the local church. Donald TRump never hid what he is - people voted for him because of it.

I don't agree with any of OP's statements about HC, but even if I did accept them, Trump has done all those same things & worse. I don't understand the point of the list at all.

Do you see Trump as a joke, not as sinister??

Most of all a vote for Hillary was a vote for no change (which is fine if your happy with the status quo).

I guess Trump supporters voted to lose medical care, lose good air quality, lose international standing & influence, raise the prices of goods, reduce quality of public services. Lots of change, sure.

In a compartmentalised way I'm glad HC didn't win b/c I would hate listening to many years of ridiculous personal attacks on her. Nobody even finds it newsworthy that Chump is personally criticised, any more.

I suspect one of my favourite relatives voted for Trump, b/c she is a staunch Republican. Good people can still make bad decisions, OP. Is best I can offer about your friend.

Nope not unfairly judged at all

trump is many awful things but he's arrogant enough that he's proud of himself and his misogynistic, racist, homophobic attitudes. So no one can claim to be surprised by the president they got, they voted for a complete asshole and they got a complete asshole.

Probably the question would be better to ask AIBU to think Trump supporters are being miss represented. I deffinatly think there is more diversity in the Trump electorate than we are comfortable dealing with. I'm strugling to see things as black and white as other people.

I think it is masivly dangerous not scratch the surface and look a the problems in society that lead to people using their vote that way? Surely something is masivly wrong in America for people to vote that way? I think we miss a huge oppertunity to fix the problems if we just villianise the Trump electorate rather than look at the deeper issuses.

The argument here seems to be that the lovely, kind, highly educated and intelligent lady didn't actually vote for Trump. She was voting for something laudable.

The problem with this position is that she did actually vote for Trump.

OP "Surely something is masivly wrong in America for people to vote that way?"

I'm not surprised that there is diversity in the Trump vote but I am wondering what's gone so wrong in the US that they wanted to vote for him. I think Hillary would have done better if she divorced Bill - though of course in numbers she won the popular vote.

but I too wonder what went wrong. The implementation of affordable health care seems to have really really upset a large number of people. But I'm still amazed that was enough for people to actively vote for Dump.

Trump makes Reagan seem well adjusted and reasonable.

I think the pleas to understand Trump voters often miss the profoundly biased role the media played. The coverage of Trump vs Clinton was not equitable. Many who voted for Trump were uninformed or misinformed. Facebook has now admitted Russia illegally bought ads targeted to convince voters of the dangers of Clinton in marginal areas.

I also think that its hard to dismiss the part played by racism and sexism in Trump's success. The rise of fascist demonstrations, representatives of explicitly racist publications such as Breitbart at the highest levels of government? Let's not be naive. There are a lot of white Americans who would never consider themselves racist who nevertheless harbour subconscious prejudices. A recent survey indicated that a slim majority of white Americans now thought they experienced discrimination (which is not backed up by data on income, employment or education rates).

As a dual national of the US and UK, racism functions differently over there in ways that aren't always intuitive or obvious.

I would be genuinely interested in why your friend voted for Trump. Even if all your views on Clinton were accurate (and I don't believe there are) she at last seemed to be an adult capable of 30 seconds of self control.

Trump admitted to sexual assault, insulted grieving parents, mocked a disabled reporter and repeatedly came out with nakedly racist statements.

Voting for Trump may not mean you are a racist but it does mean you're willing to vote one into the highest office. It's fair that that raises questions.

The motivation is mixed though. I also work (in the UK) with a Trump voter. Again, lovely guy (from Brooklyn), but not really that interested in politics apart from vague Republican leanings, watches a lot of Fox News and just hated Clinton. He doesn't think he is doing a good job by any means (and I think that that is the more interesting question) but that is why he voted for Trump. It wasn't an incredibly informed decision - it was just the choice he made between the two.

On another level, old boss, who was Ivy League educated MBA type, was also very against Clinton because he was sick of the dynasty style of US politics. Very much doubt he explicitly voted for Trump (!) but he probably didn't vote at all, which basically also helped get the buffoon where he is.

Are you American, OP? Not sure why you're talking in "we" terms if you don't have a vote.

There's an interesting series running on BBC World Series about the birth & problems of American democracy. imho, the problems of which you speak run very deep & aren't simply something modern. Read what Michael Moore has said & written about the Trump base.

The reason folk focus on the less-educated American white rural working class voter, is because they swung the election, and their support of Chump is looking unshakeable. Yet many of these same people supported Obama in 2012. They may be holding the nation to hostage.

The Trump base demographic also seem to be in decline as a group. The nation on the whole is becoming browner & more urban. Trump's election may be a kind of last hurrah.

This is disingenuous bullshit.

Perhaps it would hold water in the first few moments of the Trump presidency, or if he'd turned out to be mildly incompetent, but we know what he's like, now. Environmental protections, human rights, access to healthcare, global stability, women's reproductive rights... he's taking a hammer to everything and doing serious damage. He's also a childish, lazy, thin-skinned petulant liar who makes a fool of himself almost every time he opens his mouth, and is blatantly unfit for any position of public office.

All of this was as promised in his unprecedently ugly and hateful election campaign. People knew what they were voting for. It's ridiculous to complain they're not being represented in a sufficiently nuanced way. We don't even know how bad this is going to get.