To think Trump voters are judged in fairly?

[1DAD2KIDS]

I was out for dinner the other night with my mate, his old buisness friend from New York (she was in London for buisness) and a few others. Anyway talk got to politics and she said I voted for Trump. Well the table when silent (sort of like that Harry Enfield Women Know Your Limits video when the woman expresses a political opinion of her own).

Anyway it got me thinking and challenging the stereotype of a 'typical' Trump supporter. This lady is no redneck, she is a lovely, kind, highly educated and intelligent lady. When I think about it in effectively a two party system were you can either vote A or B is voting for Trump that looney? Trump is rightfully vilified but was Clinton wrongfully given a free ride? Is she not a sinister figure herself? People who live in glass houses spring to mind.

Look at the alternative, Clinton. Someone who was backed finanialy by people who oppress women, oppress homosexuality and genrally oppress human rights. She is a woman that often made provocative threats to start conflicts against countries like Iran. Someone I see as quite a sinister character with fingers in many pies. Most of all a vote for Hillary was a vote for no change (which is fine if your happy with the status quo).

I sort of see being a voter at the time as being stuck between a rock and a hard place. So if your an American who has been disenfranchised, have not benefited from or felt forgotten about by the last administration would you vote for more of the same? Or would you take a chance on someone who offers change? Personally I think Trump is a complete disaster and a massive turd. But I think we fail to understand many of the people who voted for him. Instead we just demonise them all as thick bigoted rednecs. We blame the voters but I see Trump as the symptom not the cause of America's problems. In a way I see his election as symptomatic of the failure of the last administration for many Americans. So why would anyone who felt failed by their government vote for more of the same? Oddly I think many people who voted for Trump would have voted for Burnie given the option (as if the powers that be in the democrats would have ever let him stand).

She is not a lovely intelligent person, she voted for a sexist, racist, homophobic megalomaniac!

The US is no longer a functioning democracy so we shouldn't be any more surprised at Trump's election than we are at Mugabe still being in power.

I have American friends who voted Trump, I have judged them and think less of them now.

But by calling everyone that votes for trump "racist, or sexist, or uninformed, or xenophobic." you are ignoring those that have genuine issues that need to be addressed.

This is such a common misrepresentation. At no point did I say everyone who voted for Trump was racist, sexist, uninformed or xeonophobic. Time and time again, this is the straw man that gets used: 'oh, so you say ALL Trump's voters are stupid racists'.

Trump did capitalise on all these attitudes.

Not all Trump voters may support these attitudes; as has been said previously on this thread, many found him repellant but necessary for advancing their own agenda (religious, economic etc). Still: the one thing they do all have in common is that none of his racist/sexist/fascist/untruthful/etc statements have been a deal-breaker.

At what point are we allowed to talk about racism?

Increasingly, you're not. Calling someone a racist is worse than actual racism.

Yes! It's amazing!

Boney - but that's the thing, if a big problem is that one of the two major parties is actively pursuing a racist agenda we have to talk about that. Racial violence is on the rise. We have to talk about that. Trump made building a big wall to keep out Mexican rapists the centrepiece of his campaign. I cannot in good conscience pretend that a significant number of those who voted for him don't like that idea or believe the fundamentally racist myth it is based on.

I am not assuming a significant number of Trump voters are racist because they voted for a candidate I dislike, I'm making a reasonable deduction based on the fact Trump repeatedly and consistently said extremely racist things and didn't lose these people's support.

The ugly tide of either racism or the decision that they didn't care about Trump's racism IS the underlying issue that frightens and concerns me.

Economic anxiety is always the scapegoat for rising racist and violent nationalism. Oh if only we'd addressed their concerns they wouldn't have voted that way! Except a rational attempt to address those concerns (as the opposition parties are often attempting to do) will never offer the pure, righteous simplicity and cathartic anger of pointing a finger and saying, "it's their fault: blame them."

And, let's face it, that's about as nuanced as Trump's policy platform was.

But by calling everyone that votes for trump "racist, or sexist, or uninformed, or xenophobic." you are ignoring those that have genuine issues that need to be addressed.

No you aren't. You can talk about their issues and how to address while still admitting that they are racist/sexist/uninformed etc. Because if you look at a giant orange toddler who is openly racist/sexist etc etc and then choose to vote for them, that IS what you are.

Of course there are issues America needs to address. Of course, some/many people's lives are shit.

Some people bizarrely chose trump because they thought he would make things better for them.

Surely they've woken up now. He's a moron. It's not even like the signs weren't there. No one can say they weren't warned.

well, apart from the piles of tsundoku I've yet to get to, a lot of it mystified me. There seemed to be a lot about how he would rebuild the economy but it didn't seem to me to have collapsed or anything.

Do you have Hillbilly Elegy in your stacks? I read it the other day and thought it was very interesting: a bit more memoir-y than I'd expected, but still very insightful into the rage, misery and self-destructiveness of being poor and white in Kentucky/Ohio. It doesn't seem like the veracity of Trump (or anyone's) economic claims even mattered: just the loud, belligerent assurance that things will change for the better and that it's okay to blame anyone and everyone else.

Tsundoku

This is such a common misrepresentation. At no point did I say everyone who voted for Trump was racist, sexist, uninformed or xeonophobic. Time and time again, this is the straw man that gets used: 'oh, so you say ALL Trump's voters are stupid racists'.

its only a strawman if its not true. You may not have said it but others have.

messyjessy17

But theri issues are still being ignored.

Why aren't Trump voters intelligent?

For one because many ills that people have supposedly voted for Trump to sort, never existed. Employment and the economy was on the rise anyway, not getting worse.

Then, his supposed solutions or improvements were either impossible to accomplish or too simplistic.

Finally, it was a long shot that this type of person would change after being elected. We could hope, but the most likely scenario was that he'd be just the same person as before.

I hope his voters are happy.

messyjessy17
Because if you look at a giant orange toddler who is openly
racist/sexist etc etc and then choose to vote for them, that IS what you are.

So by your logic those that voted Tory are disablist?

Their issues are still being ignored.

No, not just ignored. Their issues will become worse. Their healthcare provision will worsen. Women's rights are being eroded. Trump has done nothing for the average American, just as brexit will screw the vast majority of British people. But hey, we knew all this.

its only a strawman if its not true.

But it isn't true. You said I'd called all Trump supporters racist. I hadn't said that. So it's a strawman.

Now you're edging off with 'you may not have said it, but others have'? Come on. What's the point in saying anything if you're not even trying to be accurate, just flinging around fake accusations and broadening them to vague, unquantifiable criticisms when you're called out on it?

Humpsfor20yards

I agree, that they have voted and it has made things worse.

I have said before that given the choice between trump and clinton I wouldn't have voted.

I know that that is frowned upon, but I wouldn't want to give my support to either.

So by your logic those that voted Tory are disablist?

You clearly didn't follow my logic at all.

Tsundoku

"But it isn't true. You said I'd called all Trump supporters racist. I hadn't said that. So it's a strawman."

I have use a general "you" in one post. But if you want to talk semantics then maybe we should open up a different thread, there are however many posters on this thread calling anyone that voted for trump racists etc.

But anyway I can see how this is going to go.
So I will leave with this
I would have voted for either of them.

Why aren't Trump voters intelligent?

Are you seriously making a judgement on the IQ of every trump voter? You can think their judgement, their empathy, their wisdom is lacking but hardly their intelligence. A high IQ is not necessarily related to sound moral judgement or ethical behaviour.

That kind of talk - which is constant in the US - is part of the problem. It just feeds into the Bannon narrative. he recently told a group of typical Trump base "they think you are a bunch of morons. They think you are nothing but a bunch of rubes". Clearly many anti-Trump people do think this - including many on this thread. How does this help and how does it stop this disaster continuing?

Surely you can discuss it without assuming that everyone that voted in a way differently to you is racist?

But Trump ran on an openly white nationalist platform, that targeted prejudices. Since the election, events like the NFL debacle have shown he is happy to divide the country among racial lines and stoke racial tensions.

It's almost as if people voting for a racist sexist dangerous baby man don't want to be seen as agreeing with him and are offended by that?

You can think their judgement, their empathy, their wisdom is lacking but hardly their intelligence.

My post had nothing on empathy. On the other hand, judgement and wisdom go and in hand with intelligence, if not necessarily IQ.

Tsundoku - thanks, I'll add it to the tsundoku - and make it priority.

I also don't know how the candidates against Dump polled, but I remember in the primary stages, I just thought "surely he can't get picked".

It's almost as if people voting for a racist sexist dangerous baby man don't want to be seen as agreeing with him and are offended by that?

It's a similar mindset to the one that thinks Nazis and White Supremacists should be allowed to march and have their views heard.

There is an easy way to avoid being accused of racism and that's not voting for one. If you maybe slip in the voting booth and accidentally vote for one you can also loudly and determinedly object to his racism rather than trying to make yourself the victim
His voters do seem to emulate his desire in every situation, regardless of the harm he does to others, to see himself as a victim

If you vote for a racist and don't express your outrage at his racism I'm not sure you get to whine about being called on it

We have to say trump voters are intelligent now.
Brilliant.