To think Trump voters are judged in fairly?

[1DAD2KIDS]

I was out for dinner the other night with my mate, his old buisness friend from New York (she was in London for buisness) and a few others. Anyway talk got to politics and she said I voted for Trump. Well the table when silent (sort of like that Harry Enfield Women Know Your Limits video when the woman expresses a political opinion of her own).

Anyway it got me thinking and challenging the stereotype of a 'typical' Trump supporter. This lady is no redneck, she is a lovely, kind, highly educated and intelligent lady. When I think about it in effectively a two party system were you can either vote A or B is voting for Trump that looney? Trump is rightfully vilified but was Clinton wrongfully given a free ride? Is she not a sinister figure herself? People who live in glass houses spring to mind.

Look at the alternative, Clinton. Someone who was backed finanialy by people who oppress women, oppress homosexuality and genrally oppress human rights. She is a woman that often made provocative threats to start conflicts against countries like Iran. Someone I see as quite a sinister character with fingers in many pies. Most of all a vote for Hillary was a vote for no change (which is fine if your happy with the status quo).

I sort of see being a voter at the time as being stuck between a rock and a hard place. So if your an American who has been disenfranchised, have not benefited from or felt forgotten about by the last administration would you vote for more of the same? Or would you take a chance on someone who offers change? Personally I think Trump is a complete disaster and a massive turd. But I think we fail to understand many of the people who voted for him. Instead we just demonise them all as thick bigoted rednecs. We blame the voters but I see Trump as the symptom not the cause of America's problems. In a way I see his election as symptomatic of the failure of the last administration for many Americans. So why would anyone who felt failed by their government vote for more of the same? Oddly I think many people who voted for Trump would have voted for Burnie given the option (as if the powers that be in the democrats would have ever let him stand).

kursk how could they have been fabricated though? He openly admitted to being allowed to do anything to women due to his celebrity status, including the infamous 'grab them by the pussy'. He was caught on tape. How much more proof do you guys need? Though even he said he could do pretty much anything and people would still vote for him.

They even applaud creepy scenes like these

WishfulThanking

I don’t know, there probably is a element of if Clinton said it do the opposite.

I can understand why people would see someone who isn't a career politician as an attractive option, for many reasons. But why, for the love of God, would anyone in their right mind vote for trump? They don't get to complain now though. He's been doing exactly what he said he would do and behaving in ways that he was behaving before he was voted in.

"To think Trump voters are judged in fairly?"

Fixed it. HTH.

It's like a TV show. I tune in every day for the next installment of The Trump Show. What's he tweeted today? What carefully crafted agreement has he tried to dismantle today? Who has he insulted/goaded today? It would be entertaining if it wasn't so dangerous for the world.

It's made the scales fall from everybody's eyes. Americans use to claim to be the greatest nation in the world and nobody challenged their lack of humility. Since Trump, people have looked closer at this assertion and are openly saying you are so far from the greatest nation in the world and have serious, serious problems, which are now our problems thanks to Trump and his dangerous incompetence/lack of self-control/prejudice/greed/selfishness.

So, no, Trump supporters are not judged unfairly. They are getting what they deserve.

ArchchancellorsHat: "He's been doing exactly what he said he would do and behaving in ways that he was behaving before he was voted in."

Yes, though he's been too incompetent to repeal Obamacare, so that's one instance where they're not reaping the consequences of their own actions. I doubt very much he'll get round to building the wall either.

Hit the nail on the head there Wishful!

I'll never be able to get my head around the idea of women voting for a man who has been repeatedly accused of sexual assault, especially after his pussy-grabbing remarks. Just don't understand. How???

I don't understand people who vote for a psychopathic woman who was responsible for the destruction of Libya, funded by really awful people and defended her husband for rape.

Personally I think she is far worse.

Also, people had other options - like Jill Stein.

President Trump reflects the ugly truth of politics.

No. Trump reflects the ugly truth of people. People that are in the other bubbles. The bubbles that think racism and xenophobia are ok. The bubbles that believe women should be at home raising kids. The bubbles that hated the idea of a black president. The bubbles that believe everything that Fox news tells them. The bubbles that complain US goods are too expensive so buy cheap foreign imports and wonder where the manufacturing jobs have gone. The bubbles that think guns are the only way of life. The bubbles that think black people, taking a knee in a silent protest about police killing black people is massively disrespectful (to white people obviously). The bubbles that hate the idea that gay people living hundreds of miles from them can get married.

To ask why and invoke the change we need to:

Ask why people are still racist.
Ask why white cops are scared of unarmed black men.
Ask why Evangelical Christians hate working women.
Ask why people are homophobic.
Ask why people dont buy made in America goods (more expensive but they want made in America but also made cheap but also want made in America workers to be paid lots more - so basically asking why they are stupid).
Ask why they cannot view Fox News as anything other than a valid news source. Ask why they believe people like Alex Jones.

This is not an electoral cycle problem. This is intergenerational education and intergenerational equality that Trump votes dont have and dont want. Will take a lot more than a few years to fix.

I am really fed up with being told I need to "understand" Trump voters. Do Trump voters make any effort to understand Clinton voters? Nope, thought not.

I also feel the same about this. This understanding the other side, only seems to have to go in one way, which is frustrating and tiring. However, the flip side of it is that it is an implicit recognition that the "liberal" progressive side is the better side, and that the side that supports Trump is baser.

The success of Trump has shown that there is an ugliness in American civic life, and he was able to play on racist, nationalist, and misogynist feelings, and unfortunately, liberalism has to deal with that. Liberalism that springs from the enlightenment isn't, I fear, the natural state of being.

I don't think there's anything to understand. I've heard their reasons and they don't stack up.

Same as brexit. if your rationale is: 'I fancied a change and thought things couldn't get any worse' then you are stupid. It's just a shame you bring down the rest of us as you go down.

No. Also you didn't have to vote for either Trump or Clinton. There were other candidates.

Unfortunately, while I agree that their reasons don't stack up, democracy isn't like a court case or scientific article, where only the facts matter. Racism is baked into the country's foundations from Day 1, and it can't be ignored by saying "racism is wrong". It has to be a continual fight to defend the ideas of democracy, liberalism and enlightenment values. The founding fathers knew it, and if you read foundational works on UK politics (Mill on Representative Govnernment) you see this same recognition.

and it can't be ignored by saying "racism is wrong"
Well, saying racism is wrong is not ignoring it, is it?
Of course we need to challenge these ideas constantly and be vigilant- but let's not pretend that many of these ideas aren't racist or stupid or just plain wrong. They are.

Humpsfor20yards

It is kinda ignoring it. Repeatedly telling people they are racist etc doesn’t do anything other then teach them not to air their views in public and to wait until the privacy of the voting booth.

They go quiet, the liberals think they have won Election Day happens and at that point everyone gets a surprise

What did your friend think about the pussy grabbing comments?

Well I have engaged with many brexit voters who voted 'because of the Muslims'.
I don't say they are thick to their faces but I certainly don't think calling them politically stupid is a gross injustice against them.

No, they aren't being judged unfairly.
Donald Trump was quite transparent about being a racist and misogynist, not to mention the whole thing about being completely unqualified to lead one of the most powerful nations in the world. I can't imagine why any decent or rational human being would vote for him, even if they didn't support Hilary Clinton.
I do think less of anyone who voted for him, though I understand that some people regretted it. Anyone who regrets it and stands up to say so deserves a second chance, IMO.

Many of my family are lifelong GOP members
who either voted Libertarian or not at all as they could not face voting for Trump.

Some of them have done business with him and have meals with members of his family.
The only surprise has been quite how stupid he is.

BUT
The Democrats are still staring up their own backsides and have no candidate to take him on at the next election.
Thus it is likely he will get a second term.

That fact that the GOP is so riven with division that it has not been able to pass any substantive legislation even with control of all three layers is depressing and shocking.

Davespecifico

Never discussed it with them,

I'll never be able to get my head around the idea of women voting for a man who has been repeatedly accused of sexual assault, especially after his pussy-grabbing remarks. Just don't understand. How???

Someone posted a tweet this morning from a US journo in the long running Trump thread in AIBU saying she’d received messages from women saying they’d been unaware of the pussy-grabbing stuff til they saw her article. Apparently stuff like this was not covered in some US media outlets like Fox, so people are unaware if they don’t read widely.

I don't think you should generalise all Trump supporters as being the same as one another, all voting for him for the same reasons. Not all Brexit voters are BNP supporters, not all Labour voters think Corbyn is wonderful - lots of people vote for the same thing, but for different reasons.

The impression I got when I was in the States before the election was that people genuinely loathed both candidates. Where I was, the leaning was towards Clinton but solely on the grounds she was not quite as bad as Trump. They didn't like Clinton, they didn't think she would make a good president, they knew it would be a disaster if she were elected - just, perhaps, not quite as big a disaster as if Trump got in. When even your own voters think you are hopeless, it's hardly surprising that wavering voters might be tilted towards the opponent instead.

Generalising that all Trump voters are the same is dangerous. Generalisations often are. Someone doesn't need to be a bigot to vote for one, they just need to feel that the alternative candidate is just as hopeless. People also don't like being told that they have to vote a certain way, otherwise they are a sexist, racist idiot. Telling people they're not allowed to do something is a great way of making them determined to do it.

The Democrats need to understand why their previous candidate was so unacceptable to so many people. With Trump, the Republicans offered them a golden opportunity for an easy, landslide win.

The Republicans didn't win the election, the Democrats blew it.

Someone doesn't need to be a bigot to vote for one, they just need to feel that the alternative candidate is just as hopeless.

Perhaps but I contend that voting for a bigot makes you no less of a bigot than the person you are putting in power. Voting for a bigot is active choice. If no candidate is acceptable then you can not vote or spoil your ballot or choose an alternative candidate. I would choose "hopeless" options before actively choosing bigoted ones.

Generalising is indeed foolish.

That's why I really listen out for those trump supporters who articulately can explain the merits of his presidency.

Oh.

why I really listen out for those trump supporters who articulately can explain the merits of his presidency.

Have you found any?