Male postnatal depression

[Foxysoxy01]

Just caught a bit of This Morning with my coffee and they are talking about male postnatal depression.

Now I understand it is a massive change to both parents with a new baby and can quite believe that it could cause stress and worry, even depression for the non birthing partner but why would it have to be postnatal depression which feels more female and is a term used for women who have given birth?

The thing I have an issue with (maybe I'm an unreasonable cynical cow) does it not seem another thing that men have to take away from women?
It feels a little bit like taking away a real horrible issue that women who have given birth sometimes face and making it all about men again and how very hard they have it.

My AIBU is I'm I being a real in empathetic bitch or is this just another case of men having to take over women's experiences and issues? Or is it just a word I'm getting hung up on and technically it is actually correct that they may have postnatal depression?

does it not seem another thing that men have to take away from women?

I think that sounds like a twattish thing to say about anyone with depression tbh.

I also don't see why women want to keep this as their thing. I'm sure we'd really rather NOT have it as our 'thing'. We'd rather it didn't exist. But while it does, pretending that it is the same as male depression after the birth of a child is plain wrong.

I had depressive symptoms after DD's birth as did DH. His were mainly caused by stress and a concurrent bereavement and mine were 99% lack of sleep. Because when I did get some sleep, the symptoms lessened. I didn't call what either of us had PND because it wasn't.

Considering how women's recovery after childbirth, and health in general, are treated, men would probably be far better off not associating their disorders with ours.

@ilovegin112 men do get breast cancer, its not another type of cancer that has been renamed breast cancer. So I'm not sure what your point is.

I'm glad it's being raised. Yes, it's different from a woman who has just gone through all the physical changes of birth - but it's a massive life change, a massive relationship change and also for people who have family trauma in their backgrounds, can reopen old wounds.

My DH was so low after DC1 was born, and so convinced he was unfit to be a father, that I actually wished he could move out for a few months to get his head straight and let me get on with the baby side without all that stress, but was genuinely afraid that he might kill himself. But when I went to the gp there was only regular support for depressed people (massive waiting lists unless it's such a crisis you can get them sectioned), or minimal 'new dad support's groups which are few and far between and aimed at people looking to make new mates more than those really struggling. It was awful and if a label would help other people in our position I'm all for it.

Men have breast tissue so they can get breast cancer. (Although i'd imagibe the female term puts them off coming forward tge same way pnd would put men off accessing help).

Men don't have uterus' (uteri??) so they can't carry children, they don't birth children so they don't go through post partum depression.

It's also important to seperate pnd/pnp from an adoptive mum becoming depressed as this again is different. It's not a women verus men thing it's the experience of the women who gives bbirth being different to that of the person who doesn't. For adoptive parents there wull again be some cross over of sleep deprivation and change to life style being part of the reason but there will also be many reasons unique to adopting and being lumped intogether wont meet their needs to access support individual to theur experience of parental depression.

Both men and women have breast tissue, though women naturally have more than men. Both can get breast cancer. It's not solely a women's disease, though some breast cancers are exacerbated by female hormones.
Women, however, give birth to children and men don't. This is why women get post partum illness (as I shall call it from now on, to be clear) and men don't.

I know that men get breast cancer, I was just wondering about some people on here that seem more worried about what pnr is called and how it’s just another thing for men to oppress women with than the problem itself, I was wondering if they feel the same way about the poor buggers who get breast cancer

X post with many.

Yet post natal just means after birth look it up if you don’t believe me,

I am actually inclinded to agree with part of what good morning bloke said above, which is that there needs to be wider awareness that following the birth of children men as well as women can suffer depression and should feel comfortable seeking support for this. I don't care what the depression is called, post natal makes logical sense to me as it is accurate but another term could be used. The key issue has to be that all who need mental health support are aware of potential issues and that they can and should seek support.

ilovegin112

No.

But if men (not those with breast cancer because - complain away, it sucks) complained about the funding being mostly for women or complained about women organising marches and fundraising for women, yes, I'd think they were probably arseholes.

A much better analogy is the opposite. Women die from heart disease in about the same numbers as men. But the symptoms lists are male, treatments are based on male presentation, people think it's a mainly male disease and women die from ignorance of female symptoms. Ditto a lot of things like ADHD and autism. Missed or misdiagnosed in girls.

And actually BAME people see the same effect. MH issues are constantly misdiagnosed in BAME (particularly African and Caribbean) people.

When men get it, the norm is default male.

Yet post natal just means after birth look it up if you don’t believe me

Why do people think this is making a good point? Only a WOMAN owns her birth. A man has not given birth, his partner (or in some cases ex partner) has. You cannot give birth by proxy. Men cannot be ‘post natal’.

Yeah, this is why I wanted to post and go. There are too many voices and conversations to go through to talk back and fore. I dare say there are ways of DMing etc if you actually feel like talking about this.

I'm not mansplaing, and that term is technically sexist so I'll move on from that.

As for the rest of what's been said. Like I said, things are about point scoring in this, I'm here if you want to talk about this. The main thing about all this is that people with depression, postnatal or otherwise, are able, and comfortable, to seek help when needed. That's all this has ever been about for me. Making men feel like they can get help so they can be better partners and fathers. That's about it. Of course, the same goes for women too.

Don't mean to post and leave, but this will probably do for me. Just wanted to put my name to this in case anyone wanted to actually talk about it since I've had a lot of heat online without anyone messaging me personally.

I'm not mansplaing, and that term is technically sexist so I'll move on from that

. It’s not sexist, it’s a thing. Describing something that men do is not sexist.

FWIW I don’t think tone is trying to stop men getting help for depression after the birth of their child, or any other event in their life. We just don’t want them to appropriate a term that refers to something only women can experience.

Take Fuckshits comments on board, she’s made excellent points.

Women making valid points = point scoring

Mansplaining is sexist in itself.

And taking away our language makes it less likely we can speak up to access help. I also expect making a female term a blanket term will make it less likely men speak up also. So you've done the opposite of what you claim.

Voicing our experience is not point scoring, that's the exact type of dismissove invalidating mansplaining that's the problem here.

I think that calling it post natal depression will probably put men off, as it's a term for a female illness. It would be better off with a specific name for men, like paternal depression, or parental depression.

I agree assasinated

PND, rightly, is seen as a woman's depression following the birth of her baby

It would certainly, in my opinion, hinder a man from getting targeted help

YANBU OP

I don't like it being called PND either for all the reasons already stated.

My husband has a MH illness and his depression became extra bad after our first child was born. I would not say he had PND, but the birth of our baby had exacerbated his illness.

Of course men can suffer with depression after the birth of their baby but PND is a very specific condition in my mind, that can only affect women.

It doesn't make men's depression any less deserving of treatment etc but it does not need to have the same name. As another poster already mentioned, I don't think it is particularly helpful for men to label it PND.

fuck nailed it.

My dh most certainly suffered with depression straight after the birth of our twins and I would say that I feel that calling it post natal depression is pretty accurate because he never suffered with depression before and hasn't since. His depression was very much linked to the birth of our children.

Our dc's were much sought after ivf babies, he was so excited in the run up to their birth but within a day of them being born he was at rock bottom so much so that I sent him back to work when they were 4 days old ( still in pain myself as I'd had a c section ) because I couldn't handle seeing him distraught and crying. It was a tough few weeks trying to juggle twins and the worry about how my husband had changed over night but fortunately he came through it fairly quickly and is a wonderful dad.

As previous posters have pointed out PND isn't treated with hormone therapy so is not solely caused by hormonal problems, and the NHS believe it isn't solely hormonal and that men can suffer too. The idea that men are trying to 'take something' from women is ridiculous (and frankly reinforces my dislike of feminism). My dh wouldn't visit the doctor when he was at rock bottom as he felt he would be too embarrassing to admit how the birth of our children had made him feel - he certainly wasn't looking to 'take' anything from women. Perhaps some publicity around this issue would be a positive thing. Really the label 'PND' doesn't matter but it should be more widely publicised that depression after birth can affect both women and men.

I agree @LadyLannister. Men can and certainly do get PND. It certainly isn't men 'trying to take anything away from women. Sick of all this feminist bullshit.

If men can have breast cancer then they can certainly have PND.

Just to tackle the ‘hormones’ issue.

Of course you can’t just treat hormonal issues with hormones. You don’t just give serotonin to people with serotonin issues either. Because that’s not how chemicals in the brain work.

It can be a complex interaction between predisposition, hormones, situational factors, birth trauma and caring responsibilities. Only some of which men are dealing with.

Not less serious, just not the same.

Men have breast tissue. They don’t give birth.

Did people skip biology class?

Men. Cannot. Be. Postnatal.

They do however have breast tissue. Breast cancer is an accurate term.

Postnatal depression is a type of depression that many parents experience after having a baby.
It's a common problem, affecting more than 1 in every 10 women within a year of giving birth. It can also affect fathers and partners, although this is less common

I'll take the NHS definition over what PND is. States there, men can have PND. Fact.