To ask how having children affected your career?

[Fluffysparks]

Just that really. Were you employed before having the DC, how much time did you take out and do you think it affected your career? I’ve just realised that it probably has with me, in more ways than one, and I’ve been quite lucky as well...

I think what’s key is when it’s apparent you’re both wanting dc and it’s serious have the talk
Talk about parenting styles,
your values,
attitude to discipline,
education(state/private),
finances, both work (Ft or Pt),
nursery or cm or nanny.
What do you both want and expect from each other regards domestic tasks
Child requires Picks ups, sick time - how is this allocated.will it be equitable

For me, I simply couldn’t be with a man who’d expect/want me to stay home or go PT.And if he has strong feelings against nursery then he’d need to stay home cause it sure won’t be me

We had the above conversation early on. Got it out of the way and clear what our values are re children

But that is a demoralising sentence if I ever heard one.

Not at all

Society is fucked up. Western civilization is based on a huge dysfunctional myth. that of economic growth.
Many women succeed because they are playing out men's roles in patriachial companies making stuff no one really needs.

I don't want to play that game.
There are ways to contribute outside that scenario.

It's not depressing at all, in fact I think it's exciting.

Playing a mans role?
I quite like my job thanks and feel it is mildly useful. I really would like my daughter to have a great work life balance like me too.
I have such freedom and I do enjoy the cash too.

• I really would like my daughter to have a great work life balance like me too. I have such freedom and I do enjoy the cash too.*

Ditto.

Speakout- that last post is really patronising- those of us who have maintained our careers aren’t all ‘playing out men’s roles in patriarchal companies making stuff no one really needs.’

It’s also worth remembering that although you feel you’ve hit the jackpot, giving up work and starting a successful company where you can work part time from home and earn loads, that’s not the reality for the vast majority of women, as evidenced here. Quite apart from anything else, many business start ups fail. And even where women are successful in starting up a business, I doubt most of them feel comfortable to do it at the expense of their husband bonding so closely with their children due to traveling hundreds of miles all over the place, working full time and still earning comparatively less! Great that it works brilliantly for you, but many of us think in terms of things working for our family not just ourself

* Many women succeed because they are playing out men's roles*

What is a man’s role please?

I hope I’m not making stuff no one needs. Currently working on a drug to treat a neurodegenerative disease, which I do hope is slightly more useful than the average widget?

But you’re acting out a patriarchal role speakout.unwaged & financially dependent on a man
Historically,most uk women have always worked and were pivotal in industrial revolution .Only affluent women did not work but they employed women as cook, housemaid,governesses

Sahm is a relatively new post war phenomenon. But recent census stats are that majority women work. Sahm is a minority activity

I agree with LaurieMarlow: employers' unreasonable expectations are a huge part of the problem. I mentioned upthread that I'm one of the lucky ones: my career's doing fine. But I'm conscious that I'm perpetuating the problem: I've got jobs and been promoted because there's a SAHP at home so I've never had to be out of the door every night, or even every other night, by 5 to get to nursery by 6, and I've never had to turn down a work trip.

Where I'm trying to make a difference is in my promotion and hiring decisions now that I'm in a senior role: more than half my team are part-time (for family and other reasons - not all of the part-time workers are parents), and they get the same opportunities for training and promotion as full-timers. The catch is that, at least in term-time, I couldn't even consider working compressed hours myself (which would be my ideal, and which I did in a previous job), because I'm the continuity in the system.

No career left. Hate it every day. Love being around for my son (medical needs so childcare tricky/v expensive and no grandparents/friends around to provide care) and I know he appreciates it. However, am going mad, can't see a way forward and now I've really had enough am starting to apply for lower level jobs and not even getting an interview. Just can't see a way forward until secondary school (a few years to go yet).

It didn’t to be honest, but I made some tough choices for that to be the case.

I returned to work when DS was three months old for 3 days a week for 3 months and 4 days at 6 months. Back full time when he was a year old.

My DH worked full time but was always very hands on re: support and overnight.

I must have spent months of my life expressing milk to freeze. I was frankly utterly exhausted for about 2 years.

Why? Truth is I didn’t have to. DH and I both earned 6 figure salaries. We could have afford to live on his salary.

I loved my job and it’s constantly evolving. Taking months out does put you back and I didn’t want that - I’d worked damn hard to be where I was.

I spent a fortune on childcare (top end nursery) and was fortunate to have very supportive parents and PIL’s.

Do I feel guilty? No, not anymore as my son is a thriving typically shower dodging nerdy pubescent teen whose yet to discover girls but loves coding for fun but in the early years I did.

Not picking him up from school every day (I managed my schedule to do this at least once a week) and spending afternoons in the park etc was definitely something I felt lots of guilt about.

Now I’m happy with my choices. I still have a great career, my DS is doing great at school, DSD thinks my job is “cool” and she realises women can be aspirational and career oriented - my MIL was also a role model in this regard.

I massively envied friends who were SAHM’s so very much in the early years. Now, less so as many of them have struggled to return to the workplace and invariably in lesser jobs than their pre child skills would qualify them for.

Is my path for everyone - no. I can confirm as hard as I tried I couldn’t “have it all”.

I feel lucky I had a choice at all. Many women who want to work can’t because the cost of childcare negates their wage. Many don’t have such a supportive partner or wider family.

To be clear I am not critical of anyone’s choices. Rather I’m cross that it’s so hard for women to find a balance, to still be valued for skills after raising children and lack of flexible working. For it still to be expected that childcare is dependent on the mother and that fathers don’t get the opportunity to take a key role and probably don’t want to because it’s not valued.

Until we get to the place where women stick out for what they believe in nothing will change.
I don't think it should necessarily fall as a responsibility of employees to make it better for a particular sex.
It's down to us as parents in the beginning, with the help of education and then ourselves to choose partners that fit in with our plans.
I could no longer have made a go of it with a man who expected a career woman after dc than a career woman would want to give up and be a sahm.

Sorry foe employees I meant employers

@gillybeanz

I personally think it’s also up to people like me, in senior mgt to plough the road to make life choices better for the next generation of women.

That’s still surprisingly hard to do. There is so much evidence about the benefits of retaining good female staff and offering flexibility that’s ignored.

Truth is in business it’s still a mans world and many simply don’t want equal opportunity. They don’t value being a SAHP. They don’t want it to be “easy” for a man to do this - because they don’t want it at all.

* I don't think it should necessarily fall as a responsibility of employees to make it better for a particular sex.*

Wow. I can think of literally hundreds of HR meetings, panels files and policies, equal opportunity committees, Athena Swan panels, widening participation teams - all of which can just be chucked out based on the view that societal betterment isn’t something that’s a key task of those managing the workplace. First stop : my University. They can stop with all the conversation and effort around female progression, BME academic recruitment and female academics’ career advancement. That would cut out so many meetings.

What career? As the parent of an autistic child that's not really an option open to me. It should be but the childcare really isn't there.

Impostress.

I was talking about when all is equal, not that we shouldn't stand up for equality in the workplace, of course this needs addressing where it doesn't exist for women.
Equal pay, same terms and conditions, same parental leave etc.
Women choosing partners who agree with equality who are willing to support their career is the only way.
They used to say behind every successful man is a woman.
It needs to be behind every successful woman is a man.

gilly that’s definitely true in my case.

Neither I nor my DH would have achieved what we have without each other’s support.

He absolutely acknowledges my support and vice versa.

Yes. During pregnancy with DC3 my team leader stepped down. I was told he wouldn't be replaced as we didn't need a team leader. Anyway up till 38weeks I was working extra hours, mentoring younger colleagues, taking meetings etc. While I have been on maternity leave a younger colleague with half my experience has been now given the role of team leader.
It was my choice to be part time over the last 5 years , however being part time shouldn't halt career progression. Interestingly part time per hour I turned over for the business more than the full timers.

darth I think that's very true about management.

Some time ago I was offered a brilliant work opportunity. But the only way for me to grasp it was for DH to take on more family responsibility.

By that time he was very successful so he thought he'd give it a go. Some folk predicted disaster. But actually his practice increased massively and his ( already stupidly high) income increased with it.

And I suspect it's no coincidence that his department has one of the best retention rates for women as they have a HOD who is not present all the time and who most definitely will not jump on a plane at the drop of a hat and who openly prioritises his DC and DW.

"Women choosing partners who agree with equality who are willing to support their career is the only way."

Sometimes a gulf develops between what a couple say to each other (and what they genuinely feel) before they have kids - and what they say and feel afterwards.

Noone really knows how they'll feel about having kids or what kind of parent they'll be until they have them. I do think some men truly intend to be equal parents and are disappointed in themselves when they don't enjoy it as much as they thought they would.

Dp and I share childcare equally so we can both work. But honestly? We'd both be delighted if the other wanted to be a SAHP as it would just make our lives easier and make career development a possibility instead of a distant dream.
That isn't how we felt before having a child but it is now.

This thread has frustrated and concerned me in equal measure.

I worked in male dominated finance in the city. I didn’t find my pregnancy held me back, not in tbe slightest. I was promoted during pregnancy in fact.

I didn’t return after my first born, 7.5 years ago. Now, as I’m a single mother i need to return to work. I’ve tapped both previous bosses and both want me back, on the part time hours I have asked for. I don’t doubt for a minute that it won’t have half the responsibilities I had pre children but why the heck should it! I need to prove myself and work my way back up. I’ll do it. I’m a grafter, I don’t complain, I just get me head down and do it and I’ve always been rewarded for that. If I feel I have ever not been recognised sufficiently in a project, I haven’t whinged about it. I have asked for a meeting with senior manager and discussed it. Always fruitful.

This situation is similar to my female colleagues and friends. These are professionals, serious about their job, recognise that part timers are not equal to full timers in terms of career progression, of course they arent. The key is, myself and these women recognise that we have enjoyed time with our children and this inevitably and rightfully has impacted on our career. Rather than kick up a fuss about something we don’t think is actually wrong, we work damn hard and get progression that way, rather than stamping our feet.

wishing with the greatest of respect, you haven't actually been a working mum yet. You don't have a clue what it will be like. Reading through this thread you'll see that many women found the workplace a radically different place when they came back with kids - and managements attitude towards them was radically different too.

Now, I sincerely hope it works out for you. But pretty arrogant to arrive on this thread with the message 'if everyone handled it like me, they'd have a better result' particularly given that you haven't actually been through it yet.

wishing whilst I love an optimist, it's possibly a little previous to declare yourself a resounding success before you've even gone back to work .

Sick children, emergency dental appointments ( welcome to the years of the brace), snow days etc do produce problems that even the most chirpy grafter can struggle with.

How you deal with these problems is partly down to supportive partners and employers.