to find it sad that women talk about their DH’a achievements like they are their own

[Curiositykilledthecat113]

On all these “how much do you earn” threads I find it sad to see so many women who gave up careers of a lot of money to be a SAHM and talk proudly about their DH’s income as if it’s their achievement. I wonder why it’s always the woman who cares for the children and how so many woman can decide to give up work leaving them in such a vulnerable position if the husband leaves them.

I think on that other thread saying

I am a stay at home mum but my husband earns a good wage is fair enough

But i think what winds people up is saying tha actual amount

Especially if its a what do you earn type thread as opposed to household income

I never understand the argument that a SAHM is earning x, y or z or saving the family x, y or z by looking after their own children and cleaning their own house.

It's not comparable to paying someone to do it and such an odd argument. The rest of the world isn't driving their children to school or hoovering thinking 'it would cost this much if I wasn't here you know'.

newdaddie

Do not say that sort of thing on mumsnet

make

I never understand the argument that a SAHM is earning x, y or z or saving the family x, y or z by looking after their own children and cleaning their own house.

It's not comparable to paying someone to do it and such an odd argument. The rest of the world isn't driving their children to school or hoovering thinking 'it would cost this much if I wasn't here you know

Well quite. All my childless friends who work full time do their own laundry, clean their homes and cook for themselves. It's just life isn't it.

@sunandmoonshine

I was trying to quote another poster earlier in the thread, but I think MN ate the formatting somehow.

But you don't seem to recognize the quote and yet you are telling me to read the whole thread. That's a bit hypocritical don't you think?

I never understand the argument that a SAHM is earning x, y or z or saving the family x, y or z by looking after their own children and cleaning their own house.

Where we live the least expensive full time childcare (for under threes) costs £1,300 per month. I don't see what's unreasonable about a stay at home parent of two DC saying that they save their family £2,600 a month in childcare given that's how much it would cost to send the children to childcare so both parents could work full time.

internet

To be fair i have read the thread, but after 956 posts i don't remember every single one

So i think there is a difference between forgetting a post and not have an idea of the subject matter

Again to be fair to you..this has gone so off tangent i dont think anyone can be blamed for not knowing the subject matter

To quote George Bernard Shaw:

"I learned long ago, to never wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides; the pig likes it"

Well done OP. It worked.

Often with very high earning people it's not clear what the DH does, let alone the wife, so nobody actually knows who's working or not . I've never used nannies or any kind of childcare, but we have Russian neighbours where the 2 children live in the basement flat with the nanny and the parents live in the house upstairs! I know the nanny better than the mum.
Its not common to presume anything about anyone. If people want to tell you what they do then they will, otherwise don't ask!

@makeourfuture

Stop ruining my fairytale.

I can’t believe I’m contributing again to this bunfight but I can’t believe there’s so much derision and unpleasantness.

As previously stated, I am a sahm. I don’t feel inadequate or less than a working mum. By the same token I don’t feel as I though I am better than a woth mum. I made my decision based on my family circumstances and I’ve never regretted it. Had dh’s career not shown greater indication of swift progression at the time, he would have been the one to stay home but that’s not how it was.

So, if I and many of the other sahm’s who have commented, are perfectly happy with our decision, why are some woth mums so offended by our choices? I’m honestly not trying to cause another argument, I’m genuinely curious and hoping for some rational answers.

I dont care what working mothers or sahm mothers do. I honestly dont give a monkeys

I did what was best for my family at that time and i tend to assume everyone else the same

I never understand the argument that a SAHM is earning x, y or z or saving the family x, y or z by looking after their own children and cleaning their own house.

Me neither, it's a silly statement. A bit like the one where it's suggested the SAHM bills the husband for childcare, cleaning and PA role that's so often trotted out on here.

Millions manage to work and still clean, do their admin etc without having to employ people to do it. It's not impossible or hard. Likewise many work round each other to avoid childcare costs or request flexible working to keep those costs down.

The SAHP doesn't save on childcare costs as if they don't work they contribute nothing financially so the household is a salary down. Of course, presuming they worked in the first instance. Once not working, extra children don't make any difference childcare wise as there is none to purchase as there is a parent at home to parent.

The SAHP doesn't save on childcare costs as if they don't work they contribute nothing financially so the household is a salary down.

Not if the costs of childcare are higher than the wage the SAHP would bring in if they worked full time.

I think that men do benefit from having a sah spouse. Being a single parent is hard and unless there is lots of money to pay for additional support or family on hand to cover it, I don't know how single parents travel abroad for work or do jobs that involve irregular hours etc. It is much easier to do that stuff when you have someone at home whose 'job' it is to make family life smooth and easy. The problem is that society doesn't recognise this benefit and in divorce cases is not sharing the family money fairly.
My dh did an MBA whilst working ft and when we had 4 dc. He worked his arse off and deserves credit for his achievement but it was a lot easier for him to do this with me being a sahp. If I'd been working ft too, with all the demands that my own job had, I think he wouldn't have been able to get it all done because his job is not 9 - 5, the MBA involved some weekends at a university hundreds of miles from home. How do you study at that level and do your 50% of cooking, keeping on top of the house, doing school runs, homework, after school activities and spend proper time with your children?
You can buy help but even if we'd had both our incomes, it would have been very hard and our kids would barely have seen us.

My dh has been abroad for the past week. You can't tell me that is not easier with a sahp than not. If I wasn't here, he couldn't do his job because he couldn't afford to pay for the level of childcare needed to cover this. Or if I worked ft too in my old career, I would end up doing my full on job and all his share of the house/child responsibilities a lot of the time. I don't want to live that way.

I think if we want a more equal society we need to not penalise women (in divorce settlements) for doing whatever made life easier and nicer for their families. Those choices were made by both the sah and woh parent and it isn't right that the wohp should continue to benefit post divorce from all the support they received while not continuing their end of the bargain.
At the same time, post divorce, men should be forced to actually share parenting properly, so the sahm can have a fair crack at rtw without being solely responsible for the dc. Because as things stand the sahp post divorce gets all the responsibility and not enough of the money.

Wow, this thread is sure busy, but I think it'd an important discussion to have.

I get the feeling that a lot of SAHP are feeling judged and perhaps by some posters they are, but I would like to clarify that what I am critical off is not individual people making making choices that align with the status quo.

What I am critical off is the system of double standards that gets applied to both sexes and that often maneuvers one into a position of primary child-carer and housekeeper and another into a position of primary breadwinner and family-status-raiser.

Whatever women typically end up doing, whether it is paid or unpaid, systematically gets devalued, so whenever anyone says something critical about people staying home to raise children (mostly because it was the best if not the only option available) it is taken as a personal attack. Sometimes this is the case, but I feel that most often this is the first and only conclusion people leap to.

I respect my mother and her choice to become a SAHP in the 80s, but I knew from a young age that I did not want her life. Fortunately for me, I was never interested in having children or getting married. For me to live a life that "men typically lead" is easy, since I only have to clean up after myself in my small apartment and I don't have to worry about childcare.

But for some women, this would mean missing out on an essential part of life and I seriously doubt that many men would be faced with such a sacrifice.

Absolutely internat

There needs to be a massive change in society

Sorry internet

Doh

Im a SAMH. I am no lesser of a woman than any other.

This thread has only covered SAHMs with rich husbands - what about the Facebook Full Time Mummys that live off tax credits?

Be careful @teachesofpeaches, many people have found they have been overpaid tax credits, and have had to pay lots back later on. So be sure your tax credits award is correct.

So, if I and many of the other sahm’s who have commented, are perfectly happy with our decision, why are some woth mums so offended by our choices? I’m honestly not trying to cause another argument, I’m genuinely curious and hoping for some rational answers.

No one who is happy and secure in their life choices belittles others in theirs.
The running down of sahms/wohms is purely about the people doing the running down and their own insecurities. Something in the way you live your life gives them feelings of jealousy/insecurity or anger. And that is their problem, not yours.

I work, because we need the money and us both working (just) works for us.

Dhs career is accelerating much faster than mine and I think at some point, we will no longer be able to make it work with two of us working demanding jobs. At that point we will need to make some choices about working hours, careers, outside help etc. And hopefully our choices will work for us.

In summary, only an utter twat thinks everyone should live how they do.

This thread has only covered SAHMs with rich husbands - what about the Facebook Full Time Mummys that live off tax credits?

Neither parent supporting the chidren? Not something really to be bragging about on FB is it. Although many have no shame nowadays.

Neither parent supporting the chidren? Not something really to be bragging about on FB is it. Although many have no shame nowadays

Many people who work are entitled to tax credits...it could be one partner working or both partners working or neither I believe. Still, don't let your own ignorance get in the way of some benefit bashing heh?!

Has no one realised yet that no one ever wins these arguments?

@anatidae

No one who is happy and secure in their life choices belittles others in theirs.

THIS ^

I said this earlier in the thread. No way would a successful highly-paid professional who is happy with her career and her life, be bashing others who make different life choices to her. She is clearly bitter and angry, and jealous of women who can afford to stay at home.

And no way is she a highly paid barrister like she makes out; she has given it away too many times (on this thread,) that she is a poorly paid admin worker at the bottom of the food chain at work. She has also made it very clear by the spite and bile in her posts, that she is sore and bitter that she doesn't get to stay at home, like SAHMs.

I think we should stop getting mad at her, and pity her really. It can't be easy being an angry, bitter person who is jealous of what other people have.