Does our PM understand this at all? Trans

[DarthMaiden]

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/19/trans-not-illness-theresa-may-says-vows-make-reforms/amp/

Equality for everyone!!! Hurrah!!

Apart from the fact that equality means the erosion of rights from 50% of the population.

But let’s jump on the bandwagon of being cool and accepting....and not doing any research into the subject, for example how drugs that suppress puberty can result in life limiting side effects.

Let’s not talk about men convicted of rape who end up in women’s prisons or the medals won by men competing in women’s sport.

Agghh

I think someone is telling porkies.

I wonder if women will need to start using the toilets designated for disabled people if they feel uncomfortable or unsafe using the women’s facilities. If I had to walk straight out of the toilets after finding a man in there I’d still have to pee though so the only alternative would be the disabled toilet. Lots of women have bladder weakness, uti, pregnancy related frequency, period problems etc. We probably need access to toilets more than men - they can just pee into a corner if necessary.

Men always did expand to fit all personal and social spaces though

I'm not anti-trans, in much the same way that I'm not anti-men.
But in places and competitions from which men are excluded, for good biological reasons, I think transwomen need to accept that they are also excluded for good biological reasons.

They can have the feminine stereotypes and welcome. I was never any good at those.

Doesnt bother me at all .... last time I got 'touched up' in a same sex changing room it was by a predatory lesbian. Shall we ban those too?

Well lesbians are female, so no. Its unfortunate that that happened to you, but we segregate by sex. So its entirely unreasonable to expect other females to be fine with sharing with males just because YOU would be. Just like its unreasonable to equate a lesbian female with a male.

@AdalindSchade

And Brent said about that fight:

I’ve fought a lot of women and have never felt the strength that I felt in a fight as I did that night. I can only say, I’ve never felt so overpowered ever in my life and I am an abnormally strong female in my own right

I absolutely hate any sort of wrestling/fighting and am not advocate, but how is this fair.

Sloe, that's great you're happy to share changing rooms or toilets with people of either sex.

I would feel very unsafe if a male was using the changing room at my gym. What do you think I should do if the law is changed so anyone can simply "define" as a woman and use the female changing rooms?

Wtf Tortoise. That’s horrendous and barbaric. No mental health support. It not in the same league as Joseph Mengele. But I thought society was supposed to have progressed.

I know. And these activists make out they are trying to make things better for trans people too. Its just so backwards.

4thwavenow.com/

Is a decent site, to show people whats actually going on with 'transkids' and treatments

Doesnt bother me at all .... last time I got 'touched up' in a same sex changing room it was by a predatory lesbian. Shall we ban those too?

@SloeSloeQuickQuickGin that's horrible and I'm sorry she did that to you. She should have been banned.

But lesbians in general? Er, no. The vast, vast majority of sexual assaults and predatory behaviour are committed by male-bodied people, people with penises - men. The existence of a handful of outlier predatory women does not change this. Sex segregation not only makes women feel safer (which is an active benefit if we want women to take part in the public sphere) but in fact does make them safer.

If a guy with his dick flopping out walks into a women's changing room now, I know he is a predator and I can react appropriately. With these changes, I will not be permitted to do that. My only recourse will be to stay away from anywhere that I can be made vulnerable.

Why do you think we have single-sex toilets, hospital wards, domestic violence refuges? It's not because we're hoarding all the cool stuff in there, is it?

I love this!

I really hope there is a point where women will be allowed to express their opinion without being labelled a bigot. It's just another example of women being told what to accept and what to allow.

My gay friends use the word 'fishy' in reference to drag queens who looks like women. (Popularise on RuPauls Drag Race of course). I love that show and I love them, but I find that word disgusting. When I expressed that once, this group of men told me I was not allowed to be offended, found it funny, and basically said they can say what they want.
They call most women bitches as well.

Although this is clearly not the same, I do find parallels in women being told what they should accept and put up with it, or be bigoted/extreme/hysterical.

Certain, I dunno - when I worked in a warehouse there was a men's toilet and women's/disabled toilet, where they kept all of the stationery too. So I could have my pick of the pens when I climbed over them for a wee...

Male to Trans are the ones making all the noise, but something like 2/3 of referrals to the Tavistock last year for gender dysphoria came from teenage girls. Porn, social media and social contagion must surely have a lot to do with this.

The segment on Radio 4's Today programme the other day (2.5 hrs in) included an interview with a medical student, now in her late 20s, who identified as male for a while in her early 20s. She took testosterone but fortunately didn't proceed to surgery. She eventually detransitioned and now lives as a woman again. She is left with a permanently deepened voice and facial hair.

There are young women in their teens (mostly in the US and Canada, I think) who are having double mastectomies and proceeding to hysterectomy at a time when it's barely legal for them to vote.

The terrifying thing about all this is that the great majority of young people (of both sexes) who are identifying as trans are on the autistic spectrum and/or have pre-existing mental health problems. But this is brushed aside as soon as they say they are questioning their gender and hormones are the first treatment offered.

Until very recent times, watchful waiting was the approach with children and young teenagers who were suffering from gender dysphoria, combined with talking therapies. 80% of young people treated that way came to terms with their natal sex within quite a short time, with no irreversible consequences from the hormones or surgery.

Also very worryingly, most of them also realised that they are in fact gay. There appears to be a preference in some very conservative religious families (not just Christian) for having a child who is 'born in the wrong body' and getting that resolved with medical treatment rather than comin to terms with having a gay child. The present approach will instead lead these young gay men and women into sterilising and mutilating themselves.

I do think that many of those who have not thought about this much, or done any digging around to find out what's involved, would be absolutely aghast if they looked at the surgical procedures transgender people are being pushed towards. The cosmetic surgeons in this field (in the US, anyway) appear to have utterly lost sight of all morality and are selling an idea that young men can have a fully functioning vagina constructed from other bits of their anatomy, and the reality is very, very different. It's a wound that never heals, basically.

What on earth has gone wrong with us as a society that we are treating children and teenagers like this?

I don't much of a head/stomach for political machinations. But rather than lack of understanding, I sometimes wonder whether the PM/her advisers actually do understand the zeitgeist all too well, and are trying to gain as much as possible from it? Their older voter-base isn't going to live forever.

If the process is 'streamlined' then, as we've seen, self-ID reigns supreme. Women are thrown under the bus to achieve this. But cue lots of clapping from ever-so-tolerant people who have failed to think it through beyond a vague notion of "equality" and showing what good boys and girls they are. In making a show of tolerance, the Conservatives stand a better chance of retaining some of the centrist and youth vote.

But 'demedicalising' the process, as others have pointed out, could be the key term here. In giving the trans lobby and all their little helpers the 'streamlining' that they want, it makes medical transition no longer 'necessary' to gain rights as a trans person. That hugely strengthens the case for removing hormonal/medical transition support from the NHS. If the number of people wanting this type of treatment continues to grow, this dodges a potentially huge burden of cost for the NHS. That's no skin off the noses of the AGPs, who didn't want it anyway. But those transpeople who are desperate for medical/surgical transition treatments would then have to pay for them. Quids in for anybody with interests in private medicine.

In other words: women and the more vulnerable trans people will suffer, while the Tories get to woo younger voters, private medical companies rub their hands and the AGPs trim their beards, get their skimpy knickers on and dance into women's private spaces.

I wonder if women will need to start using the toilets designated for disabled people if they feel uncomfortable or unsafe using the women’s facilities

Which would mean that men identify as women and women identify as disabled people. I wonder what Emmeline Pankhurst would have made of that?

"Quids in for anybody with interests in private medicine."

Isn't it just...

Lakie you seriously think people aren’t treated differently for being disabled?!

I find it ....interesting that on all of these threads that someone pops up to say they were assaulted by a lesbian.

PLEASE NOTE I DON'T DISBELIEVE THEM

In my 45 years on this planet I have been catcalled, and physically/ sexually abused by men from the age of 10-11.

From the age of 20-23 I regularly visited gay clubs with a friend who was gay, it was wonderful, no unwanted touching/groping etc, can i say these were Lesbian nights so not men who would have no interest in me.

Now I understand that my 3 years in gay clubs does not give me the right to say no lesbians/ females can/have ever been sexually aggressive.

So why do others who have never experiences male aggression feel the need to say but but but

yes women can be abusers/violent, but stats show that 98% of violent crime is by males

Last time I looked I was a woman and my rights haven't been eroded.

Yet. If you live in the UK, they soon will be. Because any man will be able to legally self ID as a woman for any reason they choose, so long as they are prepared to declare themselves trans. Female spaces and protections will cease to exist.

Women fought for the rights and protections that are now being squandered. E.g. history of women's access to public toilets (Museum of London):
www.museumoflondon.org.uk/discover/womens-right-work-toilet-bathroom-victorian-london-wwi-factory-protest

Even today, many women will effectively be removed from the public sphere if they feel unable to use mixed public toilets. The cynic in me thinks that, at best, supporters of self ID know this and don't care. At worst, they know this and are quite happy for women to be put back in their place.

Saw this in New York this week...

The prison service have given this info to the government including that in interviews prisoners are quite open about the reasons they want to transition, which include prison privileges, easier access to victims, and a higher chance of making bail as women are seen as less threatening. Oh and the prison service also shared with government that the prisoners requesting to transition are in massive majority, serious sexual offenders

And what about past assurances that this would "never happen" - that in fact it was simple bigotry to suggest that access to victims might be a motivation?

Doubtless when it happens that narrative will change to "it's only a very few cases", but I wonder what the excuse will be if attacks become more frequent?

Moist Cantaloupe... indeed the way they talk about women on twitter especially is sickening. They really hate us and want to push us aside.

There are practical issues about this. Currently period poverty, childbirth trauma, FGM and menopause are feminist issues. Women can organize around these issues and make change. They are how our biology is used to oppress us.

If all it takes to be a woman is to say you are one what happens? Trans women come into the feminist cause and organize with us? Hopefully but probably not. Because they don't have the same issues. And a lot of trans women and allies don't like women talking about women's biology because it's triggering and excluding. So 'vagina havers' now have to organize. Except they can't because this is reductive and excluding. And sounds bloody stupid to boot. And we used to have a serviceable word for 'vagina havers'. It was women.

Bear in mind that in parts of Asia women women are dying because of period exclusion. Losing education in a lot of the world. There are 113 men to every women in China, thanks to sex selection and femicide. These are BIOLOGY based issues that we care being prevented from talking about now. Women in shelters (most of whom are sexual assault survivors) are being made to share with men or sleep outside (also with men of course). I worry about refuges.

If you think I'm being hysterical (lovely phrase BTW) this is happening. Feminists are being no platformed and attacked. Rape crisis centres are going to court over trans women volunteers insisting on working there. And women can't organize or even talk about it without rape and death threats. Which makes me apoplectic with rage because it hurts women AND the lovely trans people I know who aren't arseholes.

There are 113 men to every women in China

You might want to look again at this bit.

113 to 100