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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Surestart sexism

361 replies

LeCroissant · 18/10/2017 16:24

I just got this sent to me by email from Surestart (identifying details blocked out).

When I was at surestart with my kids, a few years ago now, most sessions were, of course, attended by women. Chairs were deliberately kept sparse in order to force mothers to stand up and play with their children. No hot drinks were allowed. No unhealthy food was allowed. At all times we were to demonstrate what good parents we were by never taking our eyes off the children, no matter how tired we were. I once had to go home from the local surestart centre because the two chairs that were available were taken I had nowhere to sit to feed my newborn.

And yet, for the men's session (run at the weekend of course, because we know that men work during the week and women don't) there's coffee, bacon sandwiches and fucking newspapers!!! AIBU to think this is fucking ridiculous?

Surestart sexism
OP posts:
CorbynsBumFlannel · 18/10/2017 21:59

Is it sexism or is it just providing what they sadly have to to get dads to attend?
I'm sure if the mums group was flagging they'd put more effort in.
They have different demographics they need to target - engagement with fathers, Sen, teen mothers, breastfeeding, grandparent involvement, looked after children etc. If they can't show they are making an impact on those groups they need to find a way of attracting people. Sahps (generally mums) will always go to surestart toddler groups. It's a money issue more than anything I think.

Original poster
LeCroissant · 18/10/2017 21:59

The pint, Manc, which you seem unable to grasp, is that men are given incentives while women aren't.

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Original poster
LeCroissant · 18/10/2017 22:00

That should say the point

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Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 18/10/2017 22:01

I'm sure if the mums group was flagging they'd put more effort in

It didnt hapoen where i live

They just closed them due to lack of demand

Original poster
LeCroissant · 18/10/2017 22:01

Corbyn, if they can't afford chairs or coffee then I think they'd have to close.

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CorbynsBumFlannel · 18/10/2017 22:04

Are they actually bringing out extra chairs? All dads had a chair at our dads group but that's because there were generally 2 of them rather than 20+ parents.

CorbynsBumFlannel · 18/10/2017 22:05

I think people get your point op they just don't agree.

Original poster
LeCroissant · 18/10/2017 22:06

I would imagine that if they're providing newspapers they're probably providing chairs.

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outabout · 18/10/2017 22:09

Yes it's sexism and looking at those 'dodgy dads' (or are they just some guys with babies photoshopped into place?) I would prefer to go and talk with mums.
Intellectual discussions? Well as long as it is at least a few steps up from discussing baby's dribble and a long way down from rocket science then that would be fine by me.
Of course catering should be the same, and no newspapers. Hot drinks are a 'safety' issue but could be handled with intelligence.

MorrisZapp · 18/10/2017 22:13

The intellectual chat line is clearly meant to be humorous.

I'm OK with this. Women round here are clamouring to spend time with other mums and babies, they have to invent new hobbies to sate the demand.

Reaching fathers is different. I can't help thinking this is the kind of thing that we complain about men doing. Nowt stopping mums from having bacon rolls and advertising humorous chat but they aren't demanding it so they don't get.

baffledcoconut · 18/10/2017 22:13

Ha. At our local council run toddler group you had to state your age, marital status and financial details at the sign in page.

That was a fucking barrel of laughs (I was the oldest mum with the youngest kid. A social pariah 😂😂🙄)

Original poster
LeCroissant · 18/10/2017 22:16

'Reaching fathers is different. I can't help thinking this is the kind of thing that we complain about men doing. Nowt stopping mums from having bacon rolls and advertising humorous chat but they aren't demanding it so they don't get.'

This is a government run centre. It's not organised by the men themselves. The same government run centre runs groups for women with no chairs or drinks.

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ArcheryAnnie · 18/10/2017 22:19

it’s great that they are gearing some towards men

DaisyRaine, nobody minds that surestart are gearing sessions towards men. What we do mind is that men are offered perks and coddling, and are being treated better than women.

What kind of lesson is this for our kids?

You bet I'm offended.

stevensupersquirrel · 18/10/2017 22:21

My local sure start had a 'dads and single mums' session on a Saturday Hmm

Original poster
LeCroissant · 18/10/2017 22:23

Dads and single mums???

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ArcheryAnnie · 18/10/2017 22:25

I would never have gone to a "dads and single mums" session, because it sounds like they expect single mums to be on the prowl for a married man.

CorbynsBumFlannel · 18/10/2017 22:26

Or the single mums are being used as bacon.

FridgeCut · 18/10/2017 22:29

www.wholetthedadsout.org.uk/ the church are at it too... (sorry skimmed the thread so may have been mentioned)

stevensupersquirrel · 18/10/2017 22:29

We were wuite bemused when we read the programme. No idea what their reasoning was. It's closed down since.

toomuchtooold · 18/10/2017 22:41

I'm wondering if it's Croydon because that's exactly what their sessions were like. No drinks and no seats, and then the dad session every 2 weeks was with coffee. DH even managed to get away with taking a phone call while he was in a weekday session (watching DT2 while I watched DT1, so it wasn't like he was a hanger on). Any of the mums had whipped a phone out they'd probably have reported us to SS there and then.

MancLife · 18/10/2017 23:03

Sorry but where has anyone said the same centre currently does not offer chairs or drinks to women? They haven't. So stop making up stuff to fit your narrative.

aVastBehind · 18/10/2017 23:52

I understand your frustration. I work for Sure Start and we get specific funding for engaging dads in our services. We used to run a Saturday group for dads, which after much thought and commitment, was really well attended. After complaints regarding the dads only format we opened it up to all parents and carers. Over the course of the year, the dads gradually dropped out and it is now mostly mums and one or two dads. That portion of our funding is now under review.

I would estimate 15% of the mums that attend on Saturday are working mums who cannot attend at any other time. I think it is fantastic that these mums have the opportunity to attend.

However, It is extremely difficult to encourage dads to come to these groups so incentives are offered. Unfortunately, this is necessary to continue funding. I'm not sure what the solution is.

Having said all that, we would never conspire to deprive someone a seat should they need it. We have no hot drinks in any of our programmes.

Jakeyboy1 · 19/10/2017 00:48

The surestart near me gave free food if you were breastfeeding. If you were formula feeding you had to sit and be hungry. FFS.

Original poster
LeCroissant · 19/10/2017 06:43

I have said it multiple times Manclife!!! Jesus, can you read?

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Original poster
LeCroissant · 19/10/2017 06:47

'Having said all that, we would never conspire to deprive someone a seat should they need it. We have no hot drinks in any of our programmes.'

The no hot drinks thing is ridiculous. But I know where it comes from. I notice you don't say you supply enough chairs for everyone.

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