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AIBU?

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Original poster

Surestart sexism

361 replies

LeCroissant · 18/10/2017 16:24

I just got this sent to me by email from Surestart (identifying details blocked out).

When I was at surestart with my kids, a few years ago now, most sessions were, of course, attended by women. Chairs were deliberately kept sparse in order to force mothers to stand up and play with their children. No hot drinks were allowed. No unhealthy food was allowed. At all times we were to demonstrate what good parents we were by never taking our eyes off the children, no matter how tired we were. I once had to go home from the local surestart centre because the two chairs that were available were taken I had nowhere to sit to feed my newborn.

And yet, for the men's session (run at the weekend of course, because we know that men work during the week and women don't) there's coffee, bacon sandwiches and fucking newspapers!!! AIBU to think this is fucking ridiculous?

Surestart sexism
OP posts:
Original poster
LeCroissant · 18/10/2017 20:03

There's nothing actually stopping men from doing childcare though is there don?

OP posts:
Teawithtoast · 18/10/2017 20:06

There's shared parental leave now. Men will finally be able to do as much child care as women.

CorbynsBumFlannel · 18/10/2017 20:09

I don't think it's particularly sexist. It is often - especially with young children - the mum who is home on maternity leave so weekends are better for dads (who aren't shift workers). I realise it says 0-10 but these groups are generally aimed at little ones but older siblings can attend.
Our
Our SureStart groups were exactly the same. The sad fact is that a lot of dads need enticing with bacon butties etc (ours had an Xbox as well) whereas mums will go anyway. There were only a maximum of 3 dads ever went to the dads group dh went to and that dwindled off so the groups became fortnightly then stopped altogether due to lack of interest.

ArcheryAnnie · 18/10/2017 20:13

But Corbyns, men are being offered one thing (bacon rolls, coffee, newspapers, "intellectual chat") and women are being offered none of that. What is that if not sexism?

CorbynsBumFlannel · 18/10/2017 20:17

I'd say it's providing the bare minimum to get parents to attend. If the mums are happy with stale custard creams more fool them! But they likely have a waiting list for the mums groups and are struggling to get anyone at the dads groups so are rolling out the red carpet to try and get numbers up.
Maybe dads who are working don't have the need for interaction to want to go to groups at weekends or maybe they are just less involved with their kids.
They likely don't have the budget for bacon rolls etc at the busy midweek groups (which dads/grandads were always welcome to attend at our centre and a couple did). But for the one or 2 dads at the weekend they can manage it.

AtSea1979 · 18/10/2017 20:26

corbyns you are probably right but it doesn't make it right.
My Surestart did this a couple of years back. I made a complaint and didn't attend again. My complaint was fobbed off and I didn't have the energy to take it further. I live in a lentil weaving village so the majority of 'mumsys' probably thought it was a lovely idea so they could clean the cooker.

HerSymphonyAndSong · 18/10/2017 20:28

" If the mums are happy with stale custard creams more fool them!"

Not sure mums with limited budgets for activities have all that much choice

NetflixandBill · 18/10/2017 20:30

I can't fault my local surestart and they do team up with the midwives to offer hot drinks for the weighing clinics. No hot drinks at the 0-6m group but i guess that practicality is limited at that anyway.

I can see that theyre trying to engage men by presenting it as a blokey group and not put off by the idea of a load of 'wimmin' talking about the contents of the last nappy and ignoring the men but yes, the newpapers and intellectual chat is patronising. There should be an equivalent one for mums.

ArcheryAnnie · 18/10/2017 20:34

If the mums are happy with stale custard creams more fool them!

Corbyns to make a rather extreme analogy, it's like equal pay. Men get paid more than women, women make a fuss about it, and then someone pops up and says "it's not sexism! If women are happy with less pay, more fool them!"

Mums aren't happy with this. I'm not happy with this. The OP clearly isn't happy with this, which is presumably why she called it out. Treating men better than women is sexism, however you slice it.

DrCoconut · 18/10/2017 20:35

When I had DS2 the only sure start group on a weekend was for dads. I ended up complaining (nicely!) as there were quite a few working mums who were excluded by being unable to go in the week. We got a monthly family stay and play on a Saturday which is better than nothing.

DaisyRaine90 · 18/10/2017 20:39

I feel sorry for men going to these groups and honestly think it’s great that they are gearing some towards men.

I think some people just want to be offended 😂

HerSymphonyAndSong · 18/10/2017 20:41

DaisyRaine90, what do you think about the newspapers and "intellectual chat"?

HerSymphonyAndSong · 18/10/2017 20:43

And why do you feel sorry for men going to these groups and not women?

What I'm getting at here is why does "gearing towards men" mean providing a much better service than women get?

Persephone31 · 18/10/2017 20:44

The surestart near me had a little playroom and outdoor area for toddlers - I only used it with my 2 year old when heavily pregnant and my midwife was running late. Looking back, I remember there being no chairs except a toddler chair - I perched on that! Just found it annoying at the time, but if it's active policy.....what complete loonies!!

browndollXo · 18/10/2017 21:00

What a strange sure start

juddyrockingcloggs · 18/10/2017 21:24

I’m usually a bit slow off the mark when it comes to things that appear sexist to other women and I’ll be honest I don’t often see it however I’ve got to say this advert is ridiculous. Intellectual chat?! Yeah because all women can talk about is the best value nappy and whether our tits are leaking or not. I mean seriously. Bacon butties? Newspapers? How long are they there for to warrant such entertainment? My local sure start in itself was lovely, and for the first couple of years of my sons life, we made good use of it - it had a cafe (outside of the main play room) and it was nice. However I worked 4 days a week and the Friday which was my day off was for 0-2 year olds and the week after my son turned two I was told in no uncertain terms that we wouldn’t be welcome to attend anymore and since I didn’t have a penis I wouldn’t be able to attend the Saturday ‘dad’s’ session.

CorbynsBumFlannel · 18/10/2017 21:26

You could only compare it to equal pay if workplaces were paying more to try and entice reluctant men into work. That's not the case. Pay inequality is sexism. Bacon butties at dads group is just a sad indication that men often need to be bribed to look after their own kids.

CorbynsBumFlannel · 18/10/2017 21:37

And the presence of newspapers (or an Xbox in our case) indicates to me that men need it to be made clear that not a lot of interaction with the children is expected and it's more about getting out from under the mums feet.

Original poster
LeCroissant · 18/10/2017 21:38

Yes Corbyn, they are offering extra things to men to do work that women do without incentives. That's sexism

OP posts:
Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 18/10/2017 21:40

bacon butties at dads group is just a sad indication that men often need to be bribed to look after their own kids.

I do think its wrong that its been worded that way on the advert...intellectual conversation? You can fuck right off with that one. And the Saturday opening is dreadfully unfair on working mothers

But i agree with corbyns quote above

Original poster
LeCroissant · 18/10/2017 21:44

In fact, not only do they not offer incentives at the groups attended by women, they actively make them uncomfortable by not providing chairs or drinks. They offer men treats while they prevent women from sitting down

OP posts:
Original poster
LeCroissant · 18/10/2017 21:51

The regular groups, attended by women, are explicitly for the benefit of the children (hence no chairs or drinks) - the women aren't even a consideration. In the group for men however the children are barely mentioned and it's all about keeping the men happy.

OP posts:
CherryChasingDotMuncher · 18/10/2017 21:51

I missed the “intellectual and other chat” part. YANBU, that’s ridiculous to assume that’s what will draw men in. Which fuckwits are running this group?

Also a PP mentioned a man was at a BF group - why?!

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 18/10/2017 21:53

The regular groups, attended by women, are explicitly for the benefit of the children (hence no chairs or drinks) - the women aren't even a consideration

Of course not. We did our job as The Vessels and I guess we have to be there so the children can be fed and changed, other than that we are useless spare parts. Duh!

It’s so strange you weren’t allowed chairs or refreshments. Honestly I would be identifying a dad this weekend if I were you.

MancLife · 18/10/2017 21:54

it's not an incentive for men to spend time with their kids. It's and incentive to go to the event.

There is so much sexism leaching from the comments on this thread it's palpable.

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