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AIBU?

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Original poster

Surestart sexism

361 replies

LeCroissant · 18/10/2017 16:24

I just got this sent to me by email from Surestart (identifying details blocked out).

When I was at surestart with my kids, a few years ago now, most sessions were, of course, attended by women. Chairs were deliberately kept sparse in order to force mothers to stand up and play with their children. No hot drinks were allowed. No unhealthy food was allowed. At all times we were to demonstrate what good parents we were by never taking our eyes off the children, no matter how tired we were. I once had to go home from the local surestart centre because the two chairs that were available were taken I had nowhere to sit to feed my newborn.

And yet, for the men's session (run at the weekend of course, because we know that men work during the week and women don't) there's coffee, bacon sandwiches and fucking newspapers!!! AIBU to think this is fucking ridiculous?

Surestart sexism
OP posts:
Original poster
LeCroissant · 19/10/2017 17:51

It's fine if you want to play and read Corbyn, but if you've given birth less than a month ago, sitting on the floor isn't really feasible.

OP posts:
CorbynsBumFlannel · 19/10/2017 18:07

Well the one I went to was rammed every morning and turning people away so a lot of people must have found it feasible.
Unless you had a bad tear or a section - in which case I'm sure you'd be accommodated with a chair - why would it not be feasible? I was down on the floor playing with my older toddler and changing nappies straight away I had my youngest.
There were 2 sofas in our group and about 20 adults. If there had been 20 chairs the toddlers wouldn't have been able to play.

aVastBehind · 19/10/2017 18:58

LeCroissant, I have come across many adults who find the low chairs comfortable, myself included (short legs).

I do understand your frustration, but think you are too focussed on the seating. It isn't and has never been an issue in any of the groups I run. A variety of seating is available, most are happy with the low chairs, some are offered, or ask for 'proper' chairs, some sit on the floor, some perch on the windowsills.

Your experience sounds unpleasant but I would say the chairs were the least of the problems. Sounds like the atmosphere was judgemental and restrictive, rather than warm and welcoming which is the very least they should be providing.

dingdongdigeridoo · 19/10/2017 19:52

Can they not get some of those safety mugs at play groups? Our surestart used to have them. Can’t imagine dealing with wailing toddlers without a cup of coffee.

DrizzleHair · 19/10/2017 22:50

OP YADNBU

In answer to cherry my DP has been to bf support groups a few times.

Reasons why include:

In the early days while he was on paternity leave he walked down with me as we didn't have a car and it was a 15 min walk, he wanted to keep me company and help if I felt tired etc

He dropped down to a 4 day week when DC1 was born (and maintained this for the last 4 years, and will for the next 5 now DC2 was recently born), and as the local group is held on his no working day he didn't want to miss out on an hour or two of 'his' parenting time and nappies etc, plus we'd sometimes drop in on our way out somewhere else

He offered, and I was keen, especially in the early days to come along to listen to bf advice and observe positions etc so he could help support me at home

Any of those reasons ok with you as to why a man would be at a bf group? He was always welcomed, though once a LLL group asked him to step outside for the discussion section of the meeting.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 21/10/2017 00:51

not hugely relevant but my DH couldn't take baby DD to baby massage classes because he 'would make BFing mothers uncomfortable

I really hope things have moved on since then...but suspect they haven't

Oh yes things have changed.
Now the dads are welcome at all sessions even the breast feeding peer supporter sessions

Which surprise surprise has led to (at least in our area) a huge drop in the actual breast feeding women attending. But oh no we can’t stop the men coming so we just talk about all this lovely support we offer

That a huge number of women now feel they cannot access

NeedsAsockamnesty · 21/10/2017 01:02

Drizzle

I have watched actual breast feeding women usually with incredibly tiny babies walk into peer supporter sessions then walk right out again when faced with a room with men in, or get up and leave when the men arrive and show no signs of going after their wife/partner is settled.

It happens a lot at one perticular venue which is the one every body whose having huge huge feeding issues get sent to.

Women who need support who have waited for the right day then travelled to get it often desperate and on the brink of giving up due to the issue they feel they need support with. They then can’t get it because they do not wish to be talking about personal things in front of men

But hey as long as the dads are comfy and happy to be sat in the room not giving up a precious hour with their baby it’s all good

TitaniasCloset · 21/10/2017 01:44

For fucks sakes Drizzle. So you are happy to ruin it for a lot of bf mums so your man can be there if you feel a bit tired? Woman up.

OP yanbu. I agree with every point you made.

Thank God I'm too old for this shite now and have teenagers and young adults. This sure start bullshit sounds horrific. I just cannot see the attraction at all.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 21/10/2017 09:32

needs

I agree, it is a dreadful shame

But if no one is prepared (in a position of authority) to stop it then drizzle and her partner are going to think that there is no problem and that its the 'done' thing

NeedsAsockamnesty · 21/10/2017 15:40

Rufus

They are not going to stop it because they do not wish to appear to be unwelcoming to men. It’s trendy at the moment.

This means that individual people need to have a bit of understanding about the situation they are likely to be sat in and have a little think.

I’ve peer supported in groups where women are sat around with their tops off often trying to get physical help with latching or working out why everything is so painful or transfer is not great and they want to know exactly where they are going wrong, if they are not doing that it’s a given that a majority of the women in the group will be talking through that situation instead of actually doing it.
Large amounts of other women are there because they have not got to grips with public feeding but they still want to get out the house.

A decent person would be mindful about that and just not bring their male partner

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 21/10/2017 16:28

I peer suported for a few years as well

I know exactly what you mean

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 21/10/2017 22:30

Any of those reasons ok with you as to why a man would be at a bf group?

No, not really. A BF group should be for BF mums. Your DH’s need to change a baby’s nappy does not trump the needs of the people who the group is actually designed for.

On my BF group we talk about all sorts of personal female related things, from nipples to soreness and many who were in the early stages (so getting used to it all with lifting up tops and matching on etc) did a fair bit of accidental flashing. No way would I have wanted a bloke there and I’d have complained had anyone been inconsiderate enough to bring their OH.

NewDaddie · 22/10/2017 08:16

I attended bf twice with dw. It was important for dd and dw wanted me there. None of the mums seemed that fussed tbh but I did position my chair so I had my back to the centre of the room.

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 22/10/2017 09:03

Can people just not bring blokes into spaces designed for women and their personal issues please? No man needs to be there at all.

Witsender · 22/10/2017 09:45

Could you not have sat outside NewDaddie? There are other women in the world you know.

NewDaddie · 22/10/2017 10:20

No.

Is the short answer. I said before that I needed to be there. And some fathers might want to be there. Both are valid reasons imo. Thankfully the health professionals facilitating the sessions aren’t regressive in their thinking.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 22/10/2017 10:22

I doubt they would look fussed newdadddie

Some of them just might not bother turning up again

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 22/10/2017 10:25

It didnt happen in my day (old)

And when i was in the mother and baby unit, ds1 wouldnt feed

I was in so much pain that i wasnt wearing a top

Dh said 'there's a man coming in you should put your top on'

And i did the death glare and said 'im assuming that if his wife is in here that he has seen a pair oftits before'

So at that point i didnt care..i may well have been slightly more annoyed at having to be careful in a baby group set up for BF mothers

Though i would obviously have kept my top on Grin

RebeccaWrongDaily · 22/10/2017 10:28

how old is your daughter that you think it is important to her that you were there NewDaddie

HerSymphonyAndSong · 22/10/2017 10:34

Putting women’s needs first = regressive

Interesting

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 22/10/2017 10:40

her

Putting breasts first in a breast feeding group...

outabout · 22/10/2017 10:47

BF groups/meetings fair enough men are not necessary but the thread was about Surestart which is for parents.
Giving birth and BF are the only things a male cannot do with regard to children.

Witsender · 22/10/2017 10:49

How it regressive to put women's needs above your own? And anything other than mansplaining that you are telling women that their concerns are now considered to be such?

When I worked as a BF counsellor we sometimes had dads come along, and in the main they stayed a respectful distance from what on the whole were exhausted, vulnerable women talking about parts that society spends its life telling them should be private. If they insisted on being right there we would encourage the pair to wait till the end so that others could be seen and leave, or if there was space/people we would take them to a separate area to allow the others space and time.

'Sigh'

MiaowTheCat · 22/10/2017 10:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RebeccaWrongDaily · 22/10/2017 10:59

the centre is facing the axe because of budget cuts.
They surestart centre has to promote breastfeeding, if you want to bottle feed read the instructions on the side of the box. It's a totally different way of feeding and doesn't really need support the same way that bf'ing does.
Not condoning the mums you refer to by the way.