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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think there is a group on MN deliberately trying to downplay the institutional oppression of women?

999 replies

PerryPerryThePlatypus · 18/10/2017 08:13

I've been hanging around these here parts since Pom Bears were just a bizarre crisp but more and more I see posters chipping away at other posters experiences, feelings of unease etc. It's difficult to articulate but it's just a shift from NAMALT to women are just as bad so stop complaining. An almost subtle silencing.

OP posts:
WhatWouldGenghisDo · 20/10/2017 16:22

It's a fact, but is it a relevant fact? When people post e.g: "AIBU or is my neighbour being a CF?" I've yet to see a thread mostly taken up with arguments about whether the OP has adequately acknowledged that not all neighbours are CFs, for example

BertrandRussell · 20/10/2017 16:24

"By saying NAMALT they are not necessarily saying anything more than stating a fact."

A fact which is so glaringly obvious that nobody ever seems to feel the need to point it out in any context except that of male violence.......Where it is even more obvious than it is when talking about childcare or domestic work.

Mittens1969 · 20/10/2017 16:24

I think there are some posters trying to derail things, that was definitely true on that other thread. But I don’t think that’s been true on this thread. You’ve got women who have husbands/partners, sons and brothers, they are obviously instinctively going to want to say NAMALT. They’re not distracting, they’re saying, hold on, that’s not true.

taratill · 20/10/2017 16:25

on this thread (was it really 2 days ago) there was a suggestion that men should not talk to women at a station at night because they should be aware that women would not want that conversation because of the risk of being harassed/ attacked etc.

I said NALMALT to that because I wouldn't actually object to be spoken to.

I do think in that situation it is a relevant fact, but can see that sometimes it might not be.

Mittens1969 · 20/10/2017 16:25

The answer there is obvious, BertrandRussell, those subjects are not emotive like the subject of male violence. Why would they feel the need to speak up on other issues?

WhatWouldGenghisDo · 20/10/2017 16:29

Mittens your latest post would only make sense if the title of this thread had been aibu to say that all men are violent rapists or similar. There's no need to keep going namalt on this thread, so why are we still talking about it, if its function isn't solely to derail?

WhatWouldGenghisDo · 20/10/2017 16:29

Cross-post!

Arealhumanbeing · 20/10/2017 16:33

They’re not distracting, they’re saying, hold on, that’s not true.

But no one said their husband is a rapist. It shouldn’t be that much of a stretch intellectually to understand that too many men are rapists (85000 rapes per year, 1 in 4 women, 1 in 6 children, 1 in 16 men) and that they are all someone’s son and probably someone’s partner.

I have good relationships with the men in my life and think they’re lovely but it has never occurred to me to say NAMALT.

Pumperthepumper · 20/10/2017 16:36

taratill that's been addressed as well though - that's not 'not all men', that's 'not all women' - if you fancied a chat you could approach the man. I would also think you're in the minority by a fair way by being happy to be approached but we've talked about that too.

Saying 'I wouldn't mind' in that context is irrelevant.

Mittens1969 · 20/10/2017 16:37

I think it really was about the phrase ‘most men...’. You probably wouldn’t have got that reaction if you’d said ‘a lot of men...’ Because that’s obviously true, as the statistics for violent and sexual crimes clearly demonstrate this.

Some women could even be worried that the men they’re with might be creeps. Not a pleasant thought when you have young kids.

taratill · 20/10/2017 16:38

pumper I'm not asking to readdress the issue, that's been done already!

Why is the opinion irrelevant though? Why can people never have an opposing opinion?

BertrandRussell · 20/10/2017 16:39

"You’ve got women who have husbands/partners, sons and brothers, they are obviously instinctively going to want to say NAMALT. They’re not distracting, they’re saying, hold on, that’s not true"

Yes, well, instinct is usually a pretty crap way of making decisions. A few second's thought is much more effective.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 20/10/2017 16:43

The title even said most men

It didnt say all men

Which makes me wonder why if someone said

Most dogs are smelly

Why someone would feel the urge to say 'not all dogs'

Thats what 'most' means in that context

I like the word 'some' the best

Mittens1969 · 20/10/2017 16:49

Maybe it is crap but people often don’t read the thread title very well on mumsnet, that’s not new. My only point is, it’s not a deliberate tactic, it’s called debating (apart from the trolls).

Pumperthepumper · 20/10/2017 16:50

Why is the opinion irrelevant though? Why can people never have an opposing opinion?

Taratill. That particular example was about male harassment. I suggested that might be a solution that would make a sizeable chunk of women feel a bit safer. You shot it down because you personally didn't mind. Then you asked if I'd ever spoken to anyone about my issues.

Once again, ignoring a wider problem. Im not saying you can't have a different opinion. I'm saying you shouldn't ignore the issue at hand because it doesn't affect you personally.

WhatWouldGenghisDo · 20/10/2017 16:51

Right i'm bored of namalt, late-night train etiquette and discussions about semantics. Can we now begin to discuss the op?

Do you folks think there are groups on mumsnet deliberately downplaying institutional oppression of women?

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 20/10/2017 16:51

mittens

my only point is, it’s not a deliberate tactic,

My only point is that some people do it as a deliberate tactic

Maybe not many...but they do

Pumperthepumper · 20/10/2017 16:54

Do you folks think there are groups on mumsnet deliberately downplaying institutional oppression of women?

Yes.

WhatWouldGenghisDo · 20/10/2017 16:55

Me too

Mittens1969 · 20/10/2017 16:56

As I said, except for the trolls. There certainly were those on the previous thread. Thankfully no evidence of that here particularly.

Unfortunately you will always get those on an internet discussion forum. And I should think feminism is bound to attract them, yes.

Mittens1969 · 20/10/2017 16:56

So yes, definitely.

BertrandRussell · 20/10/2017 17:01

Yes, I think there is. I think that there are men who make it their life's work to discredit women in general and feminists in particular. And I think that there are women who, for many reasons, always side with men against other women. This can be due to internalized misogyny, a traditional "must get a man" mindset, a desire to be cool or unenlightened self interest-a sort of "I'm all right, Jill" approach. And also, not wanting to be seen as a feminist because they have absorbed the shrieking dungareed harridan with hairy legs characterization so popular with the misogynist media.

And there are also a lot of people who can't bear the thought of the status quo being challenged-it makes them uncomfortable.

HandbagKrabby · 20/10/2017 17:01

Absolutely. It's happened on this thread. The ebb and flow of posters and arguments.

bumbleymummy · 20/10/2017 17:05

Pumper, yes and yes. Qhy wouldn't I? Are you making assumptions because I made a NAMALT comment?

what no you didn't 'paraphrase' anything. You wrote a hyperbolic rant.

Rufus You're right, they didn't say 'all' but they we're telling the women that their men could be like that without them knowing.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 20/10/2017 17:06

Well of course they could be bumbley

Thats the point

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