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Original poster

To struggle with #metoo

362 replies

BookyBook · 17/10/2017 09:29

Is anyone else struggling with this?

I can't even articulate why and why I am so reluctant to post #metoo myself, although don't want to not either. My FB thread is full of it and I didn't realise it was a thing to do until yesterday and it has completely blindsided me.

Having said that I think it makes a very strong point, I just feel a little teary about seeing all the #metoos today in a way that is making me relive my own experiences that I have trained myself not to think about too much usually.

Is anyone else the same?

OP posts:
Motherbear26 · 17/10/2017 14:15

I’m sorry that people are finding this triggering, I’m quite sure that wasn’t the intention. Having said that, I do hope that in the long run this will prove to be a turning point for women. I think some men are starting to wake up to the scale of sexual harassment and assault towards women, and while of course there are hugely varying degrees here, I think that both are symptoms of the same problem. I hope this movement means men (and women) open their eyes and start to speak up when they witness things that make them uncomfortable, and that women are finally listened to and believed and not minimised when they speak out about any form of harrsssment, however minor.

whiskyowl · 17/10/2017 14:15

underparmummy - you don't make the definitions by your opinion!

I can't turn around and say "Oh, it's not sexual harassment, because it doesn't involve an elephant and I've defined sexual harassment as unwanted sexual contact in the presence of an elephant, which means that anyone who isn't attacked in the presence of an elephant isn't suffering harassment. Hey you can disagree, but my point is valid coz it's my opinion. Elephants".

I'm not a lawyer, but at least I know that harassment has a legal definition in the Equality Act 2010, refined in case law. And by that definition, your statement that only rape is sexual assault would seem to be flat wrong.

ravenmum · 17/10/2017 14:16

Underparmummy, I looked up the definitions because I'm a linguist and was intrerested in whether an "official" dictionary definition included the long-term aspect which you mentioned. Not because I think you don't know what words mean :D

MoralBeryl · 17/10/2017 14:16

Legally speaking, sexual harassment includes action of a sexual nature which creates an intimidating or offensive environment.

You can be a witness (rather than the intended victim) to a sexually inappropriate comment is made) and still make a legal claim for sexual harassment.

The standard the courts use is whether a reasonable person would be intimidated or offended.

Legally, it's definitely not just physical stuff or long term bullying. It can be a one off comment.

Ifearthecold · 17/10/2017 14:18

I wanted to acknowledge the problem without posting over personal information on social media so just put it would be quicker and easier to have a #notme tag for people to use.

this is not a woman only problem and the stigma for men is even worse. I don't want either my dd or ds to experience this as they get older, looking around my friends and family I am not sure how they will avoid it. And I would say I was lucky as I have only experienced one incident that was unpleasant rather than traumatic.

Underparmummy · 17/10/2017 14:24

I also included attempted rape but hey ho.

My assessment of it, which has as much weight as anyone else's assessment of it is that the language goes too far, is too heavy handed. It is not inclusive. It is a deeply flawed campaign (for something that OBVIOUSLY deserves attention). It is quite, in my opinion, trite and the subject matter deserves more thought than this shitty hashtag.

whiskyowl · 17/10/2017 14:34

Your assessment of the campaign is a matter where your opinion is as valid as anyone else's.

The definitions of sexual harassment and assault are not, and women calling grinding sexual assault or running in fear of their lives harassment does not "go too far" according to the accepted legal definitions in the UK.

IcingSausage · 17/10/2017 14:35

It’s definitely thought provoking. I was talking to my husband only three days ago and said how lucky I am not to have encountered the kind of behaviours so many other women have. I honestly couldn’t think of a time I’d been the victim of harassment or anything similar.

I went to town half an hour later and a man hissed ‘slag’ at me as I was walking down the high street. I explained to my husband afterwards it must’ve been because I was wearing tight leggings.

Then I remembered the time a boy shoved a ruler between my legs at school aged 13. I’d disregarded that one because I thought that was my fault - I’d been overly friendly and given him the wrong impression.

Then the old man who groomed me from age 13 until I was 18 until he finally declared that no one would ever love me like he did. But he never actually touched me so I didn’t think that counted either.

And the man on the tube who shouted ‘look at your legs’ repeatedly until I got off the train and moved carriages. But he was drunk so that didn’t count either.

If this hashtag makes women rethink and reframe our experiences and move away from dismissing them as ‘partly my fault because of x, y, z’ then I think it will have had a positive impact.

IcingSausage · 17/10/2017 14:37

Though it’s also come as a bit of a shock to me to realise that I have been the victim of sexual harassment when I was always so positive I hadn’t been.

ravenmum · 17/10/2017 14:38

Isn't it just some film star posting and trying to get other people to post too? It's not a campaign, is it?

Skarossinkplunger · 17/10/2017 14:40

tiktok please stop saying "we". Please stop speaking for me. Please stop telling me 'what I do'. Because I don't. I get on public transport and find a seat, the nearest available one. Nothing more.

whiskyowl · 17/10/2017 14:41

raven - it's a Twitter campaign, new social media-style thing rather than a charity-run organised campaign.

icing - Your post nearly made me cry. I wonder how many women are undergoing the same process of recognition and reassessment. It's a bit of a shock to go through. Flowers

HolgerDanske · 17/10/2017 14:43

I've not got a clue. I'm speaking in a general sense when I say campaign.

But it's clearly been picked up by fb so I'd say it's definitely become a campaign of sorts.

Anyway I'm going to relax now. Enough struggle and soul searching for today.

TakemedowntoPotatoCity · 17/10/2017 14:47

Wouldn't it be nice if the men who have done this used Facebook in a similar vein to make a public apology to their victims? It won't happen of course. Too much to lose.

MargoLovebutter · 17/10/2017 14:50

I'm not sure if it is a campaign either. There seems to be no clear objective and no desired outcome - as far as I can tell, but maybe I've missed something.

IcingSausage · 17/10/2017 14:57

whisky, sorry to have almost made you cry! I’m so surprised how shocked I am at this dawning realisation, and my experiences are so comparatively minor. I can’t begin to imagine how women like yourself and others who have been through so much more must feel every day. Flowers

raisinsarenottheonlyfruit · 17/10/2017 14:59

I'm not sure if it is a campaign either. There seems to be no clear objective and no desired outcome

The objective is to raise awareness, to let women know that they're not alone and men to know that this happens, all the time. To get people talking about this in the media, online and in person.

I would say it's been pretty succesful so far, wouldn't you?

whiskyowl · 17/10/2017 15:22

icing - Nooo, don't apologise! It's a hard thing to go through! But necessary, alas, if we are to start taking this kind of thing seriously rather than doing the whole "Oh, really, it wasn't THAT bad" routine that so many of us were trained to do!

I'm actually fine. I've been very lucky in that I've been able to access incredible help both from counsellors, both from the NHS and privately. I have great friends and a kick-ass feminist husband. What angers me is no longer anything personal (it happened a long time ago now) but the persistence of this culture of male entitlement and its effects on other women. I don't want to pass this on to the next generation without challenge; I believe that we owe it to them to at least try to raise awareness and to draw lines. We have already taken strides towards making this behaviour somewhat less acceptable, and that the tide is finally turning the right way, but there's a lot of work still to do. Raising awareness, raising consciousness is so vital because while this behaviour is normalised as the ordinary background of a culture, it can persist more or less unchallenged in the mainstream, whereas when women start to think "Oh, you know, that happened to me and you know what it wasn't OK " that, in its own right, is a small (if painful) victory.

MargoLovebutter · 17/10/2017 15:50

Thank you raisins. I wasn't being snarky, I just didn't know what the objectives were, who started it, what the outcome was etc.

Great that we're all talking about it, but this has been going on forever. How do we stop it?

poisoningpidgeysinthepark · 17/10/2017 16:03

This whole thing is making me paranoid. I've spent the last couple of days racking my brains about whether I've ever been assaulted or harassed or received any form of unwanted attention because people keep saying it has happened to everyone, but I genuinely can't think of any examples.
I thank my lucky stars for that, but I do wonder what's wrong with me!
I'm not a nun, I'm early thirties, live in a big city and go out to work every day, I must just be extremely lucky.

littlemissneela · 17/10/2017 16:29

I didn't post me too as I have most of my family on FB and I don't want them to know about it. It was sadseeing some of my friends post it, especially when its also their daughters posting Sad

Standingcat · 17/10/2017 16:32

I think this is deeply personal, I won't be adding my "me too" on any social media.

StarkintheSouth · 17/10/2017 16:36

I find it really powerful and in a simple way quantifies what so many of us have experienced and live with. I think even the most decent of men can struggle to understand how pervasive the problem is. The whole Weinstein mess has triggered something in me about an assault by an ex boyfriend and I'm feeling quite raw; to the the point I feel I can't even talk about it to my husband. Seeing all the hashtags reminded me that I'm not alone, even as it deepened my anger at the current state of affairs.

tiktok · 17/10/2017 17:04

Skaross so you don't adjust any of your behaviour ever at all in the interests of your own safety (I mean apart from avoiding crossing the road in front of a lorry!)?

You may be fine about sitting down anywhere in a bus or train....but what about walking home alone at night?

I can see not everyone sees that women routinely monitor what they do to protect themselves from male harassment. And those that do think it's no big deal. Mostly it isn't, in practical terms - we just get on with life. But the fact remains that this is a gendered issue. Women are more at risk of assault, harassment, bothersome behaviour, rape and abuse from men than the other way round. And anyone sensible allows for that in their daily life.

Skarossinkplunger · 17/10/2017 17:28

I walk home alone at night frequently. When I managed bars and clubs I locked them up
at night on my own too. I've never had a problem.