To struggle with #metoo

[BookyBook]

Is anyone else struggling with this?

I can't even articulate why and why I am so reluctant to post #metoo myself, although don't want to not either. My FB thread is full of it and I didn't realise it was a thing to do until yesterday and it has completely blindsided me.

Having said that I think it makes a very strong point, I just feel a little teary about seeing all the #metoos today in a way that is making me relive my own experiences that I have trained myself not to think about too much usually.

Is anyone else the same?

Yes I do actually agree on that.

You should post if you have experience of it directly. It needs to be about the principle of having a right to one's own body and one's own space. Not about the wider culture of danger and fear, which, while it is absolutely valid, is not what this campaign is about.

You should not dilute it as it will lose its validity altogether.

This is about one step at a time. Making men face up to the reality of what it means in practice, never mind in theory.

You need to keep the two separate, even though they are inexorably linked. They are not one and the same in respect of this campaign.

And that's another reason why I don't agree with fb campaigns on issues like this.

They are like twitter. Utterly devoid of depth.

Thanks Whisky.

I suppose I'm just conscious that my response to a friend who confided in me that she'd been raped would not immediately be 'oh yeah, some guy tried to stick his hands up my top when I was 14 before getting a kick in the shins'.

You're right though, I think this is different and possibly the right time to say something, if of course I wanted to be open about it with people I knew. I can completely understand the argument that victims do not owe their story to anyone.

Yes, raisins, I am.

I fight because it is my duty, my burden as a woman of substance and one who wishes fervently that it could be different.

I have no hope that there will be meaningful change.

I think it's a good campaign actually.
There was a thread in here a few days ago asking if there was any woman on here who had NOT being sexually assaulted (so from the 'light' groping to full on rape)
There was plenty of women who can saying
Well my first reaction was NO but then I thought about it and yes I have been groped/kissed/touched when I didn't want to so te actual answer is yes.

I talked to DH about th campaign and I said 'you know most women have been assulated at some point'
I had a hum hum. It's only when I pointed out very clearly that it meant me TOO, that hearted to take attention and realise.
Same with my dcs (who are teens). They can see it, see it's widespread (one of them said he thought it was about 50%) but somehow it was affecting only some girls/women.

This campaign is the start of a discussion. It's a way to explain and raise awareness. The more we talk about it, the less it is hidden (in plain view) and in particular hidden by women out of shame and 'I don't want to make a fuss/a fool of myself' the better.

tiktok, I'm afraid I can't agree. I wouldn't be even considering a #metoo in those scenarios.

But yes, no woman owes anything and esp not their story to anyone.

The type of men who annoy me even more are the ones who act like total hypocrites. The type of man who would happily sexually assault/harass/objectify a woman but if another man did the same to his daughter he would be angry.

*"I'd be more accepting of the movement if it strived to show the sexual abuse and harassment of HUMANS."

Well when I'm out shopping with my teen (and older DDs), I don't see many Women coming onto boys/men, in the way that my DDs suffer. This is just day-to-day shopping.

This isn't an equal problem.*

Equal or not, it happens... It's not "just" women which is exactly what this campaign is making it look like.

I understand all those who feel ambivalent. There's inevitably something trite about ticking a box to indicate self-diagnosed victim-hood but the sheer volume of the response is still telling.
If all this does is trigger more self-awareness in men who feel sexually entitled then it has done a valuable job. I hope it also encourages women to dispense with unwanted attention more loudly.
I'm older and wiser now but I'm still uneasy about the way I used to collude - by laughing it off, by saying nothing - - with creepy male colleagues I felt were too senior to offend. Why didn't I say that telling a woman you fancy her does not oblige her to be grateful, available or to fancy you back?
Maybe I needed to hear that I could.

I've been raped and sexually assaulted but I never take part in these FB things so haven't posted it on FB. I'm not ashamed of it at all, but I think sharing it in that way doesn't achieve very much, least of all personally. What was valuable to me was to be able to talk through the whole experience with an experienced therapist - describing exactly what occurred was really important, and just posting a couple of words doesn't give insight into what I went through (especially as the term sexual assault is so broad - it was far more than being careful about which seat to choose on a train ). I did report the rape to police, which I did immediately, so it has gone recorded in official statistics (although it never reached trial) which I think is more important for counting than collecting hashtags.

Moral - I think it's lovely of you to care about that (it comes from a good place), but I'd make the opposite argument: until we take incidents of sexual harassment seriously, we won't take incidents of rape as seriously as they deserve. I see a continuum here, with the same male entitlement beneath it. At base, it's the same problem. I see women who are complaining about being groped as standing alongside those who have been raped in mutual support and saying that all these violations and invasions are unacceptable. Solidarity is powerful when it builds bridges across groups like this. (That doesn't mean I see those who aren't writing #metoo as unsupportive!! Far from it - this is such an intimate thing in every sense of that word that everyone must make their own choice, and what is right for one may be wrong for another).

I also think that the effect of sexual harassment and assault on victims can be devastating in very different kinds of ways that don't necessarily tally with the perceived severity of the crime. I have a friend who was sexually assaulted in a way that might look less "serious" than being raped, but it actually had as much of an effect on her as my rape did on me, maybe more so, because it was done in a public place and left her feeling degraded and traumatized about being outdoors alone. I think it's perilous to assume that we can assess how 'bad' something is for another person from the outside, you know?

Oh and to echo luna's point - these are protests. They aren't treatment or therapy.

Am I the only woman in the world that’s never been sexually assaulted or harassed? Keep seeing this #metoo hashtag but I honestly have nothing to contribute?

Same here, wino.

I have been touched inappropriately, coerced into sex, been objectified at work and received plenty of inappropriate and offensive comments over the years since I was about 12/13 - “the usual” so to speak. I’d feel very uncomfortable posting #metoo though.

So it bothers me that it gives an incomplete picture to be honest.

Beryl, when you get on a bus or a train, do you automatically, literally without thinking, scan for a safe seat? If you have to walk alone at night, do you automatically, without thinking, stick to lit streets and remain aware of footsteps and cars that slow down and so on? If a man is friendly and warm to you, do you, automatically and without thinking, take care to appear no warmer than needed back to him so he does not see you as coming on to him?

If any of these you answer 'yes' to, then you can #metoo as well, because you are affected, every day, by the culture of men harassing women.

Please tell me you aren't serious. That is no way the same thing!

Wondering which seat to sit in isn't sexual harassment and it's utterly diminishing encounters that have deeply affected many.

I would say you are fortunate if you have never experienced any direct harassment or violation of your person by a man. I am sure there are some who have led charmed lives but for many it is part and parcel of being a woman. On more than one occasion, with varying degrees of perceived seriousness. But each one damaging, and each one comtributing to the perpetuation of the greater evil.

I think it is the use of the term 'sexual assault' that is putting me off. For me that is probably really rape or attempted rape.

Sexual harassment also sounds like something more prolonged, basically long term bullying and abuse of power.

Therefore for me to put #metoo for my instances of being rubbed against on trams, leered at or made to feel afraid and chased(without anything then happening) seems a bit shit really.

@tiktok you are completely minimising sexual harassment with that statement.

Please don't.

Oh I completely agree Whisky. I can now see the scenarios are very different.

I've had people on my fb say similar.

One has said 'I'm me tooing although I've never faced these terrible things some of you brave women have I still feel fearful of what could happen.' This is coming from a women I told I was raped by someone we both know and she told me to keep quiet as I'd ruin his life and our whole gang of friends probably wouldn't believe me as I'd had a few drinks. Oh the irony. I don't actually care if she somehow sees this.

It's not a cool fucking club to in to which some women on my Facebook CLEARLY think it is.

That's what's tarred it for me.

Sorry, that was ambiguous. The scenarios I mean are the friend approaching me v the campaign.

Both acts I've described are sexual assault (or attempted at least) and both stem from the same root cause.

@Winosaurus I've never been sexually assaulted, I support everyone who is sharing their story but I feel awkward about how to best show this support. I see so many posts on here and FB saying they don't believe any woman can say they've not been assaulted - yet it doesn't feel right to jump in and say 'well I haven't'

I genuinely didn't know assault was so rife - it's been a massive eye opener. Very sobering and very saddening. Call sexual harassment out wherever I see it, but whilst I'm very aware of sexual inequality, I wasn't aware of assault being so widespread. I feel terrible that I wasn't even aware of the scale of the problem.

And yes, I must reiterate that being aware of a climate of intimidation, danger and fear in one's day to day life does not qualify.

You undermine the whole purpose and validity of the exercise! Never mind the principle of what it being illustrated by it.

This is about demonstrating the reality of actual experience. NOT about perceived threat.

This is exactly my problem with this sort of thing, as I've already stated. Bandwagon, unclear thinking, a load of shortsighted participants, finally leading to automatic denial of veracity by those who are wilfully ignorant.

The irony is that many of those women who are posting without ostensibly having valid reason to do so probably have been victims, they just don't realise it. They've minimised it to such an extent that they are completely unaware.