To struggle with #metoo

[BookyBook]

Is anyone else struggling with this?

I can't even articulate why and why I am so reluctant to post #metoo myself, although don't want to not either. My FB thread is full of it and I didn't realise it was a thing to do until yesterday and it has completely blindsided me.

Having said that I think it makes a very strong point, I just feel a little teary about seeing all the #metoos today in a way that is making me relive my own experiences that I have trained myself not to think about too much usually.

Is anyone else the same?

BishBoshBashBop If you read the part of my post that you quoted, presumably you read the parts before and after too? Clearly I was talking about my own experience (as many women are doing here) and not to other women.

I can do without you policing me thanks.

I'm finding myself conflicted because I have friends (many friends, so many it enrages me) who have been raped or seriously sexually assaulted. And my experiences are so minor by comparison (boys trying to pull my trousers down at school, groped on the tube, as a young teenager cornered and kissed by a dirty perve of a shop owner while on holiday), and mostly I put them in the "shit happens now move on" pigeon hole in my mind.

But at the same time, those minor irritations in my life are actually the reason for the campaign - that this shit exists on a continuum, and that the fear of it escalating (and you never know whether it will or not - I didn't know whether the pervy shopkeeper would let me escape after the kiss or drag me into the stockroom at the back of the shop and assault me) is what makes the world a more challenging and difficult place for women to navigate. And that the men who do the minor stuff, or brush off the minor stuff as unimportant, are in fact giving a cover story and a smokescreen for the rapists and serious sexual predators to hide behind - because it just becomes "stuff men do" (and I'm not talking about feminists doing class analysis and the compulsory NAMALT caveat, I'm talking about the low life in locker room conversations who insist - as men - that all men do it or a form of it as a justification for their own abusive behaviour).

"Boys will be boys", "women just need to be a bit tougher and learn to laugh it off", "how are we supposed to get girls on dates if we can't slap 20 women on the arse to see if one responds with a cheeky giggle?" "She probably did it consensually to get the role." All those crappy excuses to minimise the behaviour of men and turn it into women's problem. It's all on a continuum.

to everyone who's finding this whole shitstorm bringing back memories. Definitely no-one is obliged to use this hashtag.

I did not want to post MeToo on my Facebook page because what happened to me was a very long time ago - and there are people I am friends with - not least my teenage kids, but others too - with whom I absolutely do not want to share this experience.

It's the broad spectrum that is covered that's problematic to me.

I was on a run a couple of weeks ago and got honked at by a taxi driver, then later a comment about my speed (I was walking at that point) by a car driver about to pull out of a business premises. They could fit in the minor end of the scale as I doubt that either man would have done that to another man, so it is a form of sexism and being anti-social. (Many women are put off exercise because of such attention, so it does add up to something significant on a societal level)

I know it's part of the same mentality as more serious assaults, but I find merging it in with assaults and rape difficult. (I was taken advantage of while asleep and fortunate woke in what was probably the early stages).

I suppose it's like if someone told me they'd been mugged and covered in bruises, and I said "me too, someone stole my purse off the bar table while I wasn't paying attention". They're both thefts but different victim impact. The comparison can be potentially insensitive.

underpar - please RTFT. Its' actually it's for women who have been sexually assaulted AND/OR sexually harassed. This point has been made several times. You need to stop minimising and educate yourself about the definitions of both of those terms. Being ground against on a tram one time is sexual assault. It is serious, and it can have a lasting impact on a woman's sense of dignity and self-worth. It absolutely falls under the remit of #metoo, as do leers and being made to feel afraid or chased. Honestly, I despair reading posts like yours.

moral - Yes, absolutely - when I read your description, the first thing I thought was "that's absolutely unequivocally someone who can use this hashtag if she wants to"!

Well, we obviously disagree that changing one's behaviour and being fearful of potential assault is worth being concerned about. Being chased and not being caught, too, is something a PP thinks is not being concerned about.

We scan public transport and avoid darkened streets and slowly cruising cars as a form of self protection. This is sensible. Why is it sensible? Because some men are bothersome, some are violent, and some are looking for women to hassle, and we realise it's safer to avoid situations which make it easier for them.

We live with it. We're affected. It's nowhere near the same as actual assault....but it's on the same spectrum.

I'm really glad the subject is up for debate and discussion in a way it hasn't been before but I won't be #ing myself as 'me too' on social media.

I doubt there are many women who haven't been harassed at some point because of their sex, so I think we should stop crying 'me too' but start coming together to say never again, nowhere with anyone. No one should be harassed for any reason (gender, weight, race, socio-economic group, sexuality, height, age & so on).

I'd say it is probably only white, middle-class men of a certain age who have never experienced harassment - so let's all say enough is enough and give everyone some respect. We could start with music videos that, in the main, portray women as nubile, available, pretty, mute, semi-naked play things/decoration of all men & sometimes other women and take it from there!

GrumpyOldBag

It is absolutely your right not to share.

Please don't feel forced to.

I think it is the use of the term 'sexual assault' that is putting me off. For me that is probably really rape or attempted rape.
Sexual harassment also sounds like something more prolonged, basically long term bullying and abuse of power.

Definition of sexual assault
:illegal sexual contact that usually involves force upon a person without consent or is inflicted upon a person who is incapable of giving consent (as because of age or physical or mental incapacity) or who places the assailant (such as a doctor) in a position of trust or authority
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sexual%20assault
The action or an act of forcing an unconsenting person to engage in sexual activity; a rape; (Law) a crime involving forced sexual contact, variously defined as inclusive or exclusive of rape.
en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/sexual_assault

Definition of sexual harassment
:uninvited and unwelcome verbal or physical behavior of a sexual nature especially by a person in authority toward a subordinate (such as an employee or student)
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sexual%20harassment
Harassment (typically of a woman) in a workplace, or other professional or social situation, involving the making of unwanted sexual advances or obscene remarks.
en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/sexual_harassment

Nothing here about harassment being long-term, and even the part about it being from a person in authority is only "especially", i.e. not "always".

If it says assault OR sexual harassment, and you've experienced harassment, then that is included. This is about the whole spectrum.

Tiktok I absolutely agree with you that it matters hugely in the grand scheme of things, and that it's an essential part of the overall picture. But it's not on the spectrum for this specific campaign and it does the core argument no good at all if the numbers on the campaign aren't actually valid. It completely undermines the cause.

If the question was "Have you experienced sexual assault" and I had to say "Metoo" to that specifically, then I wouldn't post. I like the fact that I can be unspecific.

I doubt there are many women who haven't been harassed at some point because of their sex,

I'm trying to recall if I've ever been subject to harassment, whether because of my sex or otherwise. I genuinely don't think I have been harassed at any point, as I can't recall any time I felt in any way harassed. I don't think I've ever been cat called - the only time I've ever had anyone shout at me on the street that I remember was when a woman rolled down her window at a traffic light to tell me she liked my hair (which was dyed a striking shade of granny gray). I know I'm going to be accused of minimising but as far as I can recall I've never had any grief on the tube or bus or on the street. The worst has been a couple of times of mansplaining, but that's more a colleague being patronising than harassment, surely?

Apols, bold fail!!

whiskeyowl - I stand by my definition of assault and harassment and do not feel my experiences count as either assault or harassment. So if #metoo (and I totally agree with the definition of it by another poster as 'some kind of cool facebook club') is assault or harassment then I should not post #metoo.

The problem is the language. Post #metoo if you have suffered sexual intimidation or bullying. Sure. That works. Assault and harassment are more serious and shouldn't be undermined in this way.

I do, of course, apologise profusely for making you despair on this fine day.

banana - I believe you! I also think you've been very lucky! I'd point out that there is a difference between "not many" and "none".

Glad to hear it bananafish81. Gives me hope.

I bet lots of the posters on this thread wished they could say the same.

underparmummy - I just don't know how to put this.

I. AM. PRETTY. SURE. YOU. ARE. TOTALLY. WRONG.

This refers specifically to sexual harrasment, which is overwhelmingly experienced by women from men which is where the 'because of your sex' aspect comes in. It does not refer to all types of harrassment. So I think if you have examined your life carefully and you've never been touched, groped, yelled at, catcalled or had your person or personal space invaded by a man, then yes, you're one of the fortunate ones.

raevnmum - neither of your definitions of harassment contradict mine. Im generally ok with words and definitions just FYI. None of my unwanted sexual encounters happened at work, school uni or in a social or professional situation. they do not really fall neatly into the harassment hole (certainly as per your copy and pastes).

whiskeyowl

Thats fine. Its not an absolute.

Just your opinion.

Which you are now having on my experiences... Awkward. But sure you are the god given judge of definitions of sexual intimidation.

Overall I think the #metoo thing has brought some extra awareness.

I've seen lots of #metoo posts but I've also noticed:

• People saying I know loads of great, wonderful guys etc. etc.
• In response to the above, "nice guys" saying thanks so much for saying this, I've never done anything bad to a woman.
• Some people saying that it should be #Ididit or some kind of hashtag for men to say that they're a part of the problem or have done some sort of sexism, assault etc.

I've been thinking about the "I know loads of nice guys" posts made by women. I know a lot of them are posting this because they think it's all too negative and some men already feel shame regarding what they have done and their sexuality. But, I would argue that it's the same as people who can't be bothered discussing racism because it's upsetting and makes them feel accused when they're good non racist people.

Also, the guys who say "thanks, I'm a good guy and have never done anything bad". Why do they feel the need to say this? Actually post it? Are they not capable of being more bothered about all the women around them that have suffered (and all the men around them that have caused suffering).

The criteria is sexually assaulted or harassed right? In that case, that's every woman (and of course some men). Does every woman really need to explicitly state this before society realises it?

It makes me uncomfortable because I don't want to publicly out myself that way and I feel sort of forced to do so. It does feel like "outing", too. Very few people know about my history of child abuse and I feel very uncomfortable drawing attention to it in any way. But then I feel almost traitorous for not doing it.

I'm a little uncomfortable with people telling some women that their experiences of sexual assault/harassment are 'not serious enough'. It's not a competition. Abuse of women by men is a gendered, structural thing, and women are encouraged to minimize things that were 'just' a grope, 'just' being stuck in a room with a man who was making it very clear that he expected to have sex on you and you should just agree and stop fussing or there would be negative consequences, 'just' a kiss that you didn't duck away from quickly enough to prevent him sticking his tongue in your mouth when you didn't want - and weren't in a situation where you would have expected - anything more than a social peck on the cheek, 'just' a bloke waving his dick at you and shouting 'Do you want some of this, eh?'...

I have nothing on my FB timeline apart from my birth and this post, which I will delete in a few days' time. I'm not trying to join in with some sort of club or jump on a bandwagon. I'm hoping that the sheer number of such posts might contribute to greater awareness of the issue in a similar way that e.g. the Jimmy Saville scandal has, and eventually help make groping and lewd comments be seen as dirty and embarrassing rather than one of those things some men do.

If anyone thinks that the previous paragraph is a lie and I just want to show off, well I'm judging you right back! :)

Ugh, I hate the "not all men" posts. I had this discussion with my husband recently - that rape and sexual assault are about so much more than ignoring a no, that subtle coercion, begging, pushing for things also qualify and in my experience most men have done something like that at some point (many as teenagers) and definitely don't feel like they've abused anyone. I was quite surprised that he completely agreed with me and realised that he has probably mildly coerced activities especially as a teenager by just generally being a pain in the arse. He does not feel good about this realisation and I think it's been a shock and an eye opener to him, which surprises me as I don't know how men don't get this.

Also, I hate how they're all "I'm so SHOCKED" - if you're shocked by Weinstein then you're not paying attention. Please piss off with your shock.