To think my friend is mad for refusing to vaccinate?

[FannyTheFlamingo]

I'll admit, I'm a bit ignorant on this subject. My DD is nearly 1 and she's been vaccinated. It wasn't something I gave too much thought to, I just did it because I thought it was for the best.

My friend has done her research and says that she doesn't want to risk her son getting brain damage from a vaccine. She says if he catches something and dies, she could forgive herself, but she couldn't if something happened as a result of a vaccination. Is she mad?

I'm hoping MN users have differing views and are much better informed than I am. I don't want to convince her to change her mind, but would like to offer her some pro vaccination advice.

Or do I just keep my beak out?

Her reasoning is that the vaccines especially mmr might trigger autism as both her dbro and dbro in law have severe autism.

This is a bollocks excuse - it’s still possible to be vaccinated against these diseases by having them done separately, total cop out!!!

My OH was nervous about ours having the MMR because of family members putting this idea in his head, but I said no way to having no vaccinations so our compromise was to have them done individually at a private clinic.

Antivaxxers should not be allowed to procreate 😡

Let's just for a moment assume this women has done her research from credible peer reviewed scientific studies - which, yes - shock horror, can be found online.

She will have read about the risks of spraying billions of genetically
Modified live flu (including swine flu) and MSG directly into the nasal passage (bypassing the bodies gut and liver filtration systems) of a child, which has never been tested for safety.

This woman is well informed. She has read the VAERs database reports and considered the thosands of adverse effects following Fluenz vaccination, which include neurological damage, Guillien Barre syndrome, narcolepsy and meningitis.

She wondes.. if vaccinations are so safe, why has the UK government paid out billions in compensation for those who can (afford) to medically prove that they are more than 60% disabled by vaccination. She wonders how many others there are that don't fit the strict 60% criteria.

She's read the CDC's information and has noted that the vaccine as been highly ineffective in recent years and begins to consider whether the risk of gambling with her child's health is with it, given the fact that (at best) the vaccine is around 50% effective at reducing the risk of influenza infection, but the government has recorded it as low as 3%, in recent years.

This women may have also read the full SPC leaflet for the product (not just the PIL or manufacturers insert), and notices that those who are immuno compromised should not be around those who have received a live virus vaccine (MMR, DtaP, nasal flu). She wonders how she's going to keep her other child who is immunocompromised with an auto-immune disorder (which she believes was triggered by her Dtap vaccine at 4 years), seperste from a whole school's worth of recently vaccinated kids, which science has proven, all shed the live virus for up to 28 days.

But hang on, what about the others that are too sick to get this vaccine. We need herd immunity don't we? She researches germ theory and looks at the peecebtage of people who get vaccinated and realised that 1) unless the vaccine is close to 100% effective (which it isn't!)
2) unless everyone is getting it (where are the teenagers and adults getting their boosters)
The herd immunity from vaccination cannot possibly exist.

Stupid? No.
Educated? Yes.

One of the other issues with anti-vaxxers is that they are not considering what will happen if they want to travel. We do have pretty good herd immunity in the UK (I would still vaccinate though) but surely we have n even stronger moral obligation to vaccinate if we take our children abroad.

You don't even have to travel. Consider this case of a fatal diphtheria case in Brisbane a few years ago. She was unimmunised. Her friend had travelled to Eastern Europe and brought diphtheria back and passed it on to her. She died without going anywhere overseas.

www.smh.com.aubreaking-news-national/diphtheria-death-in-brisbane-shocks-ama-20110503-1e64k.html

I've just sent her this

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/ideas.ted.com/why-we-must-get-vaccinated-to-protect-the-people-who-cant/amp/

I told her that I wasn't sure she'd read enough on both sides and that I just wanted her to be more informed. I'm not going to call her mad to her face and ultimately it's her decision, but made it clear I think there's a right one and a wrong one.

If anyone has any other articles that would be worth a read, please let me know.

Thank you for sharing stories so I can pass on some actual real examples.

She is mad yes. And very selfish. The DC my DD nurses have had their immune system destroyed by chemo. She risks them. My DGS may not be able to have some of his injections due to severe allergies (under review) she risks him. Most of the people who make this decision are basing it on pseudo science and mumbo jumbo.

I know for me the MMR was a difficult decision, at the time rumours were rife about the possibility of causing Autism, PM Tony Blair refused to confirm whether his child had had the vaccine.

I decided to have my DC vaccinated and I am pleased I did, when DC2 came along it wasn’t something I needed to think about.

I did know someone who thought their child would be protected as other parents have it done. A very dangerous strategy. I know I could never live with myself if my DC had caught a childhood disease and died.

She’s an utter moron and no way would her DC be coming anywhere near me and mine.

"To think my friend is mad for refusing to vaccinate?"

Not mad- bad. Puts her children at risk, puts other people's kids at risk. I don't think parent should have the choice to be this irresponsible.

In centuries past, 4 in every 5 children died young. Vaccination is the biggest factor in changing this. Even with the advances in hygiene and medicine, if most parents behaved like OP's friend then there would be a holocaust of disease.

@Jlm151 Some children with credulous parents will die due to silliness like yours. I cannot comprehend what you get from this, but please stop.

Please don't patronise me. My husband is a GP who has seen many vaccine injuries, including SIDS in twins 6 hours following vaccination.

I was fully pro-vaccination (as most ''crazy, mad, idiotic'' anti-vaxxers are) before vaccinations ruined my family's lives. A round of travel vaccinations triggered my severe M.E.

It's not as black and white as the government and MS media would have you believe.

She is a selfish idiot. There are kids out there who can't have these vaccines and rely on herd immunity to protect them. She's risking those lives too. Twit.

Ask her if she would be able to forgive herself if her sick child infected a pregnant woman whose baby then went on to have birth defects, an elderly person who then died or a cancer patient who was undergoing chemotherapy?

Rats studied with amounts consistent with infant vaccines developed neurodevelopmental disorders.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21225508

If anybody thinks herd immunity doesn't exist, can you explain this map to me? I haven't spent too much time educating myself on anti-vaxx facebook pages and therefore it kind of looks that the lower the vaccination rates, the higher the measles infection rates..
justthevax.blogspot.fr/2013/06/meanwhile-measles-break-out-in-dutch.html

In the UK for example, measles mortality had declined by over 95% BEFORE measles vaccine was even introduced. So-called ‘herd immunity’ levels of 95% vaccinated have barely been reached in the last 20 years and yet measles deaths are extremely rare. 3 children died in the last 20 years and one was fully vaccinated. All 3 boys were seriously immune compromised. There are over 2 million unvaccinated children in the UK with the MMR at any one time - where are th 'epidemics' that we are told will happen?

How can herd immunity exist if vaccine immunity expires over the course of 2-20 years (dependant on the vaccine). In addition, if all the adults within the population aren't receiving boosters to their childhood vaccinations, nor are the receiveing all of the new vaccinations on the current childhood schedule, then how is herd immunity even possible?

@Jlm151 I'm not looking for any anti vax links.

jim your husband is a Gp who doesn’t believe in vaccinations? there is no evidence that vaccinations caused your ME, ME can be caused by a multitude of life events, singling out one variable would be impossible.

Jlm151

Your GP husband has seen "many". Really? I've been in paediatrics for nearly 20 years and never seen one. The rest of your posts are nonsense too.

I find it amazing how many antivaxers know GPs, consultants, specialists rtf who don't vaccinate yet as a nurse I've yet to come across a single healthcare professional who is antivax with respect to childhood vaccinations.

Rtf =etc

The 'evidence' is that I was fine the day before and extremely poorly for 5 years from the same day as my vaccines.

Cunts who would prefer to risk their child contracting a myriad of lethal or debilitating illnesses rather than 'catching autism'.

It's the whole attitude of 'ZOMG AUTIZMZZZZ IS THE WORST' that fucks me off, because its pretty fucking insulting to all the people with, or raising kids with autism.

No need for belief if you are able to compare risks.

Vaccines aren't 100% safe, nothing is. There is a risk of damage or death. The risk of damage or death from the diseases is much higher unless you are immune compromised or allergic to the vaccine ingredients.

So you reduce risk by vaccinating unless your personal risk from the vaccinr is higher.

Same as you reduce risk from a car journey by wearing a seatbelt, turning the phone off, not driving tired or drunk. You may still be in a crash but your odds of one are lower.

It is the most gob smacking selfish attitude to not vaccinate. Unless she lives in a bubble, she and her child will come into contact with vulnerable people every day. How could anyone even entertain the thought of putting them at risk? It is insane.

Really? You've worked in paediatrics and haven't seen auto-immune conditions, cancer, neurological disorders, allergies, Gut disorders? The evidence is all out there, in peer reviewed independent literature. Just because it's not published by the media and publications that are owned by, or governments that are heavily lobbied by the pharmaceutical industry doesn't mean it's not there!

Some people spout bollocks until their child gets measles or meningitis, then the NHS is called upon even though stupidity prevailed when said NHS were trying to prevent illness.
These people aren't welcome in my house.