To think my friend is mad for refusing to vaccinate?

[FannyTheFlamingo]

I'll admit, I'm a bit ignorant on this subject. My DD is nearly 1 and she's been vaccinated. It wasn't something I gave too much thought to, I just did it because I thought it was for the best.

My friend has done her research and says that she doesn't want to risk her son getting brain damage from a vaccine. She says if he catches something and dies, she could forgive herself, but she couldn't if something happened as a result of a vaccination. Is she mad?

I'm hoping MN users have differing views and are much better informed than I am. I don't want to convince her to change her mind, but would like to offer her some pro vaccination advice.

Or do I just keep my beak out?

I have no respect for people who don't vaccinate unless they have a genuine reason which doesn't include "I've done my research!!!"

You can not call her your friend if you she so comfortable calling her
'mad'
I am not sure you are completely aware of the damage you can cause banding around a very loaded term.
It is her choice, it is her baby, and like all other decisions you will make during motherhood you may not always agree, you can not be this judgemental! Not only will you lose this friend but you risk losing all of your friends by being so critical and lacking the very important quality of accepting people just how they are whether you agree with them or not.

Most anti vaxxers I know believe in homeopathy.

That should tell you everything you need to know about their intelligence. Your friend is being unreasonable.

My iPhone has corrupted my message but I think you get this gist. Don't be so judgemental

Bird "the very important quality of accepting people just how they are whether you agree with them "

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA no.

FFS this all thread is ridiculous. Not all vaccines are the same and it's stupid to just say as a general statement 'I don't vaccinate at all' just as it is to say 'I'll take any vaccine that comes my way'!

Nah I don't accept people whether I agree or disagree with them it's a scale.
Disagree on sugar in coffee = OK, disagree on dunking biscuits, ooh dodgy ground, disagree on vaccination and risking my child for whom I have no choice = no way.

I cannot view that person the same. I cannot extend my affections in the same way as I may have previously, once I have known that they willingly have made a direct decision to raise the risk of harm to others.

"She says if he catches something and dies, she could forgive herself, but she couldn't if something happened as a result of a vaccination."

Your friend is describing The Trolley Problem.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem

I think this is behind a lot of anti-vaxxer belief, but it's interesting that she has put it into words.

And yes, I think she is wrong. In the link above, she would be the person who does nothing, allowing five people to be killed instead of one.

It is her choice, it is her baby,

Apart from it is not just her baby. As many people on the thread have pointed out it also increases the danger to other children and people with compromised immune systems. Her decision could cause serious illness in an innocent child or sick adult. Generally if people make decisions that cause no harm to anyone else apart from themselves that's fine, when they are putting their child and other children in danger damn right I am going to judge.

It is not for you to judge. We live in a democracy the last time I checked.
If you don't like it move to China where everything is enforced. I am sure you will be very happy

I have a compromised immune system due to my medication and I still think a mother has the choice and the last word.

I would never remove it from being her choice and agree that enforcement is not the solution. However I would still judge and alter my behavior.

It is not for you to judge. We live in a democracy the last time I checked.

What sort of democracy do you live in that means you can't judge someone for endangering another person's life? Do you think drink driving is just a personal choice as well?

It's not at all like drunk driving - unlike staying sober, vaccination is invasive and carries a level of risk. The idea that people vaccinate their children in order to benefit random strangers is facile. They do it to benefit their own children.

You can't use reason to argue someone out of a position they haven't used reason to get themselves into.

Anti-vaxxers are dangerous idiots.

A close friends parent decided not to vaccinate them and a few years ago caught mumps and is now facing the possibility that it may have made them infertile! Definitely best for them to be vaccinated it is complete rubbish that it causes brain damage and has been hugely discredited by qualified professional in recent years. Ask her how update this ‘research’ she has is and the qualification of the authors.

This topic has been done to death on MN. Does anyone really have anything new to add? Have a search and you'll find multiple threads asking about opinions on vaccinations and a majority of posters on all of them are pro-vax. We already know the predominant opinion on here. Do we need to keep repeating the same thread over and over with the same replies?

Yes she is mad. And incredibly selfish as well to not give a flying fuck about the vulnerable in society who rely on herd immunity. Imo not vaccinating for non-legitimate reasons should be considered child abuse. I wish the UK would do what Australia did and revoke tax exemptions for people who refuse to vaccinate their children for non-medical reasons. (Some people cannot legitimately be vaccinated for medical reasons that's different and totally fine.)

I am so fucking tired of anti-vaxxers and their head-in-the-sand idiotic views. I wouldn't care if they were only endangering themselves but they are putting the lives of other people at risk because of their own selfishness.

Parents who don’t vaccinate for fear of autism are twats. No exception.

Yep, she is selfish and could well come to seriously regret her decision.

@ThatHippyDippyShit Thanks for that pointless response. I'd just come out of a heated debate with my friend and wanted to rant on here and also become better informed, because I didn't have enough to offer in our argument. If you're bored of reading the same shit, go read something else!

Controversial I know, but I don't subscribe to the her baby-her choice view. I think babies and children of people like that should be protected from their parents. Many of the diseases we vaccinate against can give brain damage. Your friend's child is unlikely to catch them as most people do vaccinate creating her immunity. Your friend is a free- rider.

Herd not her

I haven't read the thread. But your friend is selfish and not just for the obvious- 1 (obvious) other children who are immunosuppressed who cannot fight these viruses could be inadvertently exposed
2 she is selfish because her reason for not vaccinating get child are because it's all about her. How she would feel guilty if the child was brain damaged, but not guilty if it got a horrible illness.

As many have said, your friend is illogical and putting the health of another person at risk. It is not her health, it is her DCs health. How would she explain to them if they, say, caught meningitis as a teenager and were in massive pain that she could have prevented it but chose to ignore reams of scientific research?
A friend of DH's family died as a young adult from complications caused by catching meningitis as a child.