To think my friend is mad for refusing to vaccinate?

[FannyTheFlamingo]

I'll admit, I'm a bit ignorant on this subject. My DD is nearly 1 and she's been vaccinated. It wasn't something I gave too much thought to, I just did it because I thought it was for the best.

My friend has done her research and says that she doesn't want to risk her son getting brain damage from a vaccine. She says if he catches something and dies, she could forgive herself, but she couldn't if something happened as a result of a vaccination. Is she mad?

I'm hoping MN users have differing views and are much better informed than I am. I don't want to convince her to change her mind, but would like to offer her some pro vaccination advice.

Or do I just keep my beak out?

QuopQuop

Well, actually anti-vaxxers can only take the moral high ground and make these choices because 95% of parents do vaccinate their children. If there actually was polio raging among children, you can bet your arse that Mrs Brain Damage would vaccinate. She has no clue about the severity of these illnesses because she has never seen them. If she had, she would think differently. She might also want to do research on infant mortality pre-vaccination.

It also makes me sick to think that there are parents in third world countries who would give their right arm to be able to vaccinate their child against a disease that might otherwise kill them. Yet, some privileged internet expert claims it causes brain damage.

I won't even start on the fact that she is putting the immuno-suppressed and very young babies at risk. I am sure that's fine though- it's all about HER child and screw everyone else.

“She says if he catches something and dies, she could forgive herself, but she couldn't if something happened as a result of a vaccination.” Tell you good luck with that.

*her

She says if he catches something and dies, she could forgive herself, but she couldn't if something happened as a result of a vaccination.

I've got the opposite point of view. If one of my DC were to die or be permanently damaged after catching a vaccine preventable disease (particularly one of the ones included in the routine childhood vaccination program), and I'd refused to have them vaccinated, then I wouldn't be able to forgive myself for turning down the vaccine.

The risks of a serious reaction to vaccines are small, and I'm acting on medical advice when allowing my DC to be vaccinated, so I think I could forgive myself if something happened to my DC as a result of vaccination.

I have a friend who's exactly the same. We just don't talk about it, because it ends in arguments. I agree with others that there's probably nothing you can say to convince her...

Utterly mad. I think people forget that the illnesses we vaccinate against used to routinely kill in childhood.

I was a little precious about DD when she was teeny (okay I still am) in the crazy new baby days and I read up on it all. Those anti vaxxer websites are scary - until you realise what a load of shit most of it is. I have a scientific background, so read up on all of the chemicals in DD's first few jabs. Nothing remotely concerning in them!

The only reasonable argument in my opinion for not vaccinating is if your child has had a serious reaction to one (ie egg allergy), or if there is a family history of serious reactions. Then I completely get the logic!

She's an idiot. So if she didn't vaccinate and her child fell ill and died then she wouldn't have one minutes guilt over not having the child vaccinated? She really is an idiot.

The whole discussion is senseless without knowing which vaccine she is talking about? All vaccines or some of them? All vaccines seems extreme. Some of them may well be a very informed decision made by someone who has actually researched this more accurately than most people insulting her on this thread.

Tell her that it is safe to vaccinate as long as you give your child a homeopathic remedy immediately afterwards - any remedy will do as they will all be equally effective.

Absolutely Papafran

I bet QuopQuop doesn't even remember polio. I do. As a child I remember seeing kids in leg braces because they had had polio. Before the polio vaccine was developed polio instilled the same kind of fear in parents that meningitis does today.

I suspect that the anti vaxxers are too young to remember how devastating the diseases were that you don't see today. I had measles as a child and was extremely ill. My eyesight isn't too good now.

And you can bet your bottom dollar that DD will get the meningitis vaccine before she goes to university.

Why would you risk it?

My parents had that attitude to the whooping cough vaccine in the 70s: if I caught the disease and died they could rationalise it but if they gave me the vaccine and I was damaged by it they couldn't. Never made any sense to me as both are essentially an affirmative choice. As it happened I caught whooping cough and lost almost all of my hearing aged three. Objectively I have done well in life so they don't see their actions as having had a material effect; I know different. They consider me reckless for vaccinating my boys against everything going but as far as I am concerned, if a vaccine exists then it's not worth running the risk. Seemingly benign and common childhood illnesses can have devastating effects. My dad is an intelligent man with a science background too - hugely disappointing that he has subscribed to the irrational nonsense of Wakefield at al.

The whole thing about vaccination is that it needs the majority to be immunised to stop these illnesses circulating.

So it's not just her child (and she wouldn't mind them dying or being brain-damaged by something that could be prevented?!?!) It's other people's kids too. Does she mind if they're permanently disabled/die?

Most anti-vaxxers don't address the serious health risks of illnesses like measles. The fact she does and STILL says she won't vaccinate is utterly baffling.

I lost a newborn baby to hospital contracted hepatitis.
I would never put anyone in my shoes by not vaccinating.

The only reasons I can see for not vaccinating are a) on the advice of medical professionals; and b) devout religious reasons.

I don't agree with b), but at least there is some consistency about refusing vaccinations, blood transfusions and antibiotics, not just the preventative medicine.

Most public schools and summer camp / leisure activity providers in the US require a full vaccination record in order to enrol (my poor DC had to have lots of "catch up" jabs, as their requirements are more extensive than the UK, plus I had to argue very very hard not to get them vaccinated against chicken pox as they had already had it). I don't like the principle of the state effectively forcing parents to get their DC immunised, but it is a pretty effective policy nonetheless.

I’m actually surprised at the number of posters who are ok with not vaccinating.

Selfish attitude.

Complications from getting measles; 10% of all children who get measles also get infected ears and this can cause hearing loss, one of a thousand get swelling of the brain which can cause death, but in most cases "just" cause brain damage, for every thousand who get measles one or two will die from it, one out of twnty get pneumonia and then there is the diarrhea which happens for a little less than 10%. But hey, I bet those anti-vaxxers are all really friendly towards and accepting of people with brain damage..... oh no wait, they are not otherwise they wouldn't have listened to ex-dr Wakefield.

The thing is that in a society where the majority are vaccinated, the chance of catching an infection that could kill is fairly low. However vaccines do pose a very very small risk. Therefore people choose to rely on the fact that the overwhelming majority of children are vaccinated. I think this is just selfish.

My friend hasn't vaccinated her kids
Her kids, her choice

I find her belief in homeopathy more alarming tbh

I wasn’t vaccinated and got everything going as a child. Am lucky to be here. I simply don’t understand my parents.

habibihabibi I'm so sorry to hear that. My heart goes out to you.

OP Your friend is stupid/ill informed. I really hope she does does some further, proper research.

Yep, mad. And selfish for putting other children at risk

She is benefitting from "herd immunity" As long as other people vaccinate their children, the chances of hers getting infected are low - however that doesn't mean they are nil.

MMR etc protect against diseases that really are live=thratening. Measles is not just a few spots - it can leave children blind, deaf, brain damaged or dead. Mumps is very painful and can lead to meningitis, infertility and pancreatitis. German measles can be transmitted to pregnant women and seriously damage the foetus.

We see these illnesses so rarely now we have forgotten how serious they can be. But the reason we see them so rarely is because we immunise our children.

There are some children who cannot be vaccinated because of other health problems - forepeople like your friend to intentionally refuse vaccination increases the risk to this already vulnerable group.

Your friend is a selfish, risking her child and those of other people.

She hasn't "done her research", she's read a lot of shit on google and swallowed it whole.

Not mad just ignorant and selfish. I hope if you ever have a new born baby who is not yet vaccinated she won't expect to visit your home and let them near your baby.

'Them' being her unvaccinated children

Her child her choice. I can't see her logic personally.
I was unsure I asked my doctor who in his medical opinion said it was for the best so I did.

I often wonder the people who don't vaccinate their child then they catch one of those illnesses what do they do have the treatment? If you don't think medical opinion to vaccinate is good advice why would you go back for treatment?