To think my friend is mad for refusing to vaccinate?

[FannyTheFlamingo]

I'll admit, I'm a bit ignorant on this subject. My DD is nearly 1 and she's been vaccinated. It wasn't something I gave too much thought to, I just did it because I thought it was for the best.

My friend has done her research and says that she doesn't want to risk her son getting brain damage from a vaccine. She says if he catches something and dies, she could forgive herself, but she couldn't if something happened as a result of a vaccination. Is she mad?

I'm hoping MN users have differing views and are much better informed than I am. I don't want to convince her to change her mind, but would like to offer her some pro vaccination advice.

Or do I just keep my beak out?

^kind of give you my credentials... scuse the pidgin English

I've always vaccinated but am on a group that happens to attract a lot of anti-vaxxers.
I only recently learned that the government offers compensation for vaccine injuries.
I've also learnt that doctor practices receive more funding for the more they vaccinate. Great incentive.
I admit I am starting to have doubts.

@Dutch1e "kind of give you my credentials"

Perhaps I was unclear: I'm not enquiring about credentials but motivation.

You don't need to use pejoratives about anyone- that's my choice; but if you are just picking at vaccination in a milder way than the other anti vaxxers then I will assume you are a nut and disengage. If you are having an interesting discussion about the REAL technical aspects of vaccination then I'm interested.

You didn't address my questions BTW.

I fear that people make judgements on vaccines, which may sometimes make the difference between life and death for a child, because “feelings”. There is a lot of rubbish on the Internet which one can use to prop up almost any fallacy there is. Scientific evidence is firmly on the side of vaccine safety and efficacy. If a child is killed or acquires life-changing injuries as a result of a lack of vaccination, it is no more a random Act of God than the sky-high gun homicide rate in the US.

A decision not to vaccinate is a decision to allow your child to be exposed to higher risk from some fatal or life-changing diseases. It is also a decision to make it more likely, for the children who cannot be immunised due to chronic health problems or chemotherapy, that they will be exposed to these fatal and life-changing diseases.

Sadly, doing things because “feelings” appears to be the zeitgeist, which explains the widespread denial of man-made climate change, and the mass refution of the theory of evolution.

I vaccinate my dc because science. And because I care about their well-being

@donquixotedelamancha I meant it when I said I'm not taking a stand either way. This subject genuinely interests me and it's difficult to find conversations that don't have emotional heat powering them (admittedly tricky as this topic goes right to the heart of parents just wanting to protect their kids).

Happy to answer your questions, let me read them through properly

I've also learnt that doctor practices receive more funding for the more they vaccinate. Great incentive.
Erm, that would be to cover the costs of the vaccine and of running the clinics. Flu clinics for example are bloody expensive to run. Extra staff, usually on days off and with a seemingly unlimited influx of people. Nurses, secretaries, Doctors all have to be on hand.

I've also learnt that doctor practices receive more funding for the more they vaccinate. Great incentive.
Good. It will help and encourage them to promote immunisation against serious diseases.

What screening programme could there be? How many pre-existing conditions that you wouldn't know you had, but might have serious interaction with a vaccine are there?
We could start with the ones we do know about.
E.g. when I took my youngest for their first jabs I asked if the vaccine was cultured on bovine serum. My son had very bad reactions to anything from cow, it was in his medical history. She had no idea about the vaccine ingredients (fair enough, you can't memorise everything) and encouraged me to look it up online. Then pressured me to get the shot "while you're here."

Schrodinger's Patient - use the Internet to become a voice in your own treatment while simultaneously not Googling and meekly doing what your doctor tells you to do.

Perhaps I just got a bad doctor. Still, I can't help wondering how many of us could name 5 vaccine ingredients, let alone getting an idea of how they might affect our own child if we relied completely on the short conversation we have on jab day.

No titre test to see if the person is already immune
Not cost effective. Agreed. Not sure if that's a good enough reason though. Especially for the X% of people who never develop immunity, either through vaccination or wild exposure. Seems like they might want to have that information.
Won't substantially reduce harm. How can we be sure until we define harm and track the data carefully?
99.99% of people will not already be immune to M,M or R for example- that's the point How can you be so sure? (Genuine question)

No clear guidance on what an adverse event is.
Again- what do you base that on?
Did your doctor tell you about that common reaction before you had the jab - and how to add it to a central record like VAERS in the interests of careful data-gathering?

no dose control based on body weight
Why would that ever be necessary for a vaccine?

It's not necessary for the antigen, true. Body weight is relevant for the adjuvants.

no mandatory reporting of adverse events
Are you sure? I thought there was for new vaccines under longitudinal study

I meant in daily practice, not in studies, sorry for being unclear.

This idiot would no longer be a friend.

@shhhfastasleep Unfortunately I think this is the way it's going to go. DP, who rarely gets passionate about anything to do with other people's business, is horrified and wants nothing more to do with her!

My Dcs had the vaccines I did not and had a terrrible measles attack at around 12 I can still remember the fevers and the fear. I would not put anyone through this. Mr friends DP nearly died of mumps recently why risk a serious illness

This has just been posted in response to our argument...

It's not true though, is it Fanny. It's a made up poster by anti vaxxers. They won't believe you though...

This person (friend's DP) has a picture of David Icke on his profile as well 🙄 You can't argue with stupid!

Oh dear, Fanny!

Wow. How shamefully ignorant. Bet these stupes are vaccinated,sadly for the species.

Plus the usual one - there's no smallpox now. That wasnt magic.

Belief in magic is why there is still polio, which could also be long gone.

Dearie me.

I think I'd just quietly unfriend. Actually no I wouldn't. I'd post to say it was the most ridiculous thing I'd ever seen but what did I expect from a David Icke fan? Then I'd unfriend.

What a pillock.

I commented, unfriended, had a bit of a to and fro with some messages and the FB account has been deactivated! Good! That's a few hundred people that don't have to read the bullshit. Unfortunately their child is still unvaccinated and will remain that way. I feel better for making my point though.