To think my friend is mad for refusing to vaccinate?

[FannyTheFlamingo]

I'll admit, I'm a bit ignorant on this subject. My DD is nearly 1 and she's been vaccinated. It wasn't something I gave too much thought to, I just did it because I thought it was for the best.

My friend has done her research and says that she doesn't want to risk her son getting brain damage from a vaccine. She says if he catches something and dies, she could forgive herself, but she couldn't if something happened as a result of a vaccination. Is she mad?

I'm hoping MN users have differing views and are much better informed than I am. I don't want to convince her to change her mind, but would like to offer her some pro vaccination advice.

Or do I just keep my beak out?

Nice visual for any interested in understanding herd immunity.

I'd love to know what 'doing her research' actually means and whether she is medically trained, or is a scientist.

People that don't vaccinate for any other reason than there is a strong reason to believe their child will have an unfavourable reaction are idiots. The only reason to not would be on the advice of a medical expert.

It's a friendship ending thing for me too. My brother almost died as a newborn because our ignorant neighbours 'didn't believe' in vaccinations.

Ah yes the sanitation and hand washing.
postimg.org/image/qyzmkb32n/
This is India, they have managed to get rid of polio. All the cleanliness and sanitation, clearly. Nothing to do with vaccines.

Call her mad is an insult to mad people.

She's endangering her child and other children.

I don't think it's an informed decision if you decide not to vaccinate your kid. You're still not "getting" something and need to keep researching if you think it's the right choice.

@LadyRenoir My baby caught mumps before she could have the MMR. She potentially infected another child who had had the MMR vaccine themselves as a baby (like all responsible parents do) but had lost all immunity while going through chemo. Aged six. Weak. Cuddling my baby as a treat as she adored babies.

Basically that girl could have died because of some idiot who didn’t “believe” in vaccination.

And my baby was bloody miserable with mumps. I never spoke to the parent who infected us all again. She was an uneducated parent who could have killed another child with her stupidity.

This is the site where Nine's graphs come from:
visionlaunch.com/vaccines-eradicate-diseases-20th-century/

And the World Health Organisation's take on the hygiene v vaccines argument:
www.who.int/vaccine_safety/initiative/detection/immunization_misconceptions/en/index1.html

The whole thing about vaccination is that it needs the majority to be immunised to stop these illnesses circulating

How can an unvaccinated child give a vaccinated child the disease If the vaccine is supposed to prevent infection? If the vaccine really works then the only children at risk are the unvaccinated ones -- whose parents made their choices and took the risks

Measles hasn't been eradicated as there is a big outbreak in the area I live. In the local news that a couple of schools have cases.

To people who say she is putting other kids at risk- how is that? If other kids are vaccinated, they are at no risk or whatsoever - vaccines don't give 100% protection, MMR 2 doses is about 97%, so they are a danger to that 3%. Plus of course babies, I was terrified when we had an outbreak in the area and my second was too young to be vaccinated.

The vaccines are not 100% effective. It is mostly vaccinated kids who get the diseases.

yep, walked out of a room in 2013 when the swansea outbreak was running. As it was the first time some "friends" had seen my 1 year old ( immuno compromised) son. They knew his state as he had been in hospital for the previous 6 months, they knew they had come from an outbreak town. The conversation turns to the news as it was the outbreak where a 25 year old had a measles linked death and announced that they did not believe in vaccination and none of their 3 kids were vaccinated.
Stood straight up , picked up my child and walked out.

Bonkers.

I wouldn't be her friend.

It is mostly vaccinated kids who get the diseases.

i.pinimg.com/736x/d6/1c/27/d61c278cb2ab4bdddfce7f065b9643b4--this-meme-the-text.jpg

My thoughts are the opposite the the ops friend
My reasoning for choosing to vaccinate is that if they had a reaction to it I would be at peace because I was choosing to do something to protect their future whereas if I didn’t vaccinate and they caught it and were permanently damaged as a result I would feel guilty for not taking a recognised option to prevent it.

I have heard one argument from anti vaxxers - that if you contract the actual illness you somehow have 'better' immunity.
It's rubbish. Latest research into measels is that it attacks B and T cells, which take quite a long time to recover. The result of this is that a lot of previously acquired immunity to other illnesses is lost.
I can understand if there are allergies or immune deficiencies, but every other argument I have heard against vaccines has been utter rubbish.

My friend's baby nearly died of whooping cough many years ago, because she was allergic to egg and could not be vaccinated. To see that poor baby, less than a year old, in intensive care, blue and terribly distressed, would be enough to convince anyone of the value of the "shot".

If the vaccine really works then the only children at risk are the unvaccinated ones -- whose parents made their choices and took the risks

And the unvaccinated children who aren't vaccinated because they can't be? What are they, collateral damage?

Ooh I like the "better " immunity argument. So that means I just have to catch measles to get "better" immunity against measles.....oh...ah right I'll ensure I get the gentle measles the first time.

I totally believe in that better immunity. It's like getting pregnant so you don't have to worry about contraception.

It is mostly vaccinated kids who get the diseases

That's because there are (thank God) more vaccinated than unvaccinated. If you have 100 vaccinated children and 1 unvaccinated, then the most unvaccinated children who can get an infection is 1. Of the 100, the most is 100, but it will probably be much less than that (for arguments sake, we'll say 10, but it probably wouldn't be that many). The 1 unvaccinated child (100% infection) may die, or be left blinded. deaf etc - certainly will suffer a lot. The 10 vaccinated (10% infection) will most likely have a high temperature and a degree of discomfort for a week or so - no death or serious disability/

Vaccination often prevents the disease altogether, but where it doesn't prevent, it greatly reduces the severity.

I totally believe in that better immunity. It's like getting pregnant so you don't have to worry about contraception

No - it's like replacing a nail in a horseshoe so that you don't have to buy a new horse.

Her child, it's up to her.

It might be her child but it's not her health