To think my friend is mad for refusing to vaccinate?

[FannyTheFlamingo]

I'll admit, I'm a bit ignorant on this subject. My DD is nearly 1 and she's been vaccinated. It wasn't something I gave too much thought to, I just did it because I thought it was for the best.

My friend has done her research and says that she doesn't want to risk her son getting brain damage from a vaccine. She says if he catches something and dies, she could forgive herself, but she couldn't if something happened as a result of a vaccination. Is she mad?

I'm hoping MN users have differing views and are much better informed than I am. I don't want to convince her to change her mind, but would like to offer her some pro vaccination advice.

Or do I just keep my beak out?

Anti-vaxxers are morons.

@nineinchnails but "eliminated" and "eradicated" as used in that study are technical terms which do not mean eliminated or eradicated as most people would understand in common parlance. There are still hundreds of cases per year. As I said.

Some more

Measles was only declared eradicated in the UK LAST MONTH. Before then it was largely eradicated until a large outbreak in Wales in 2013 that could almost certainly be attributed to a large number of people not being immunised as a direct result of the Wakefield 'research'. However, the outbreak happened and people got vaccinated very quickly and it was controlled, hence, the situation where it has now been declared eradicated.

It's thy simple Nine but please do go ahead spreading around your alternative child killing 'facts'.

In the state in the US we have moved to your child isn't allowed to attend school without a vaccination certificate, either public or private school. I am guessing that this would influence all but the most hard line anti vaxers if the same was done in the UK.

So all we need to do is wash our hands then ? !!

So say the baby is one of the miniscule percentage of children who are vaccine damaged and is brain damaged (I don't know if that is the result because out of all the people I know who have been vaccinated I don't know anyone who was damaged by it). If she would rather her child be dead than brain damaged then she doesn't deserve children imo.

Measles has most certainly not been eradicated in the UK, there was a teen in dds old school who caught it last year and ended up with corneal scarring.
Fortunately dd had been vaccinated and didn't catch it from her friend but there were four cases altogether in one year group.

The graphs show deaths rather than cases. Medical treatment improved and prevented a lot of deaths - thanks science!! But vaccines prevent cases meaning that people don't have to suffer from complications for the rest of their lives.

I'm still here...don't want people to think I've started a heated discussion then disappeared. Just going to catch up with all the responses...

No mention of the fact that the diseases mostly died out when hygiene in hospitals and hand washing came about

Why haven't we managed to eradicate flu and the common cold then? If it's just about hand washing and hygiene why am I sitting here with a stinking cold?

To be fair to nineinchnails it is a fact that our increasing understanding of how disease spreads and improvement in hygiene and living conditions has meant these the incidence of these diseases was decreasing however it was vaccinations that eradicated small pox and polio in this country. It is foolish to suggest that vaccine doesn't play a part on prevention.

As I said, there’s never really any debate on mumsnet on this so I’m off

Measles has no reported cases in last month. Doesn't stop children being infected from abroad. In 2016 there were confirmed cases.
Does anyone else remember measles? Not bad for most children but those who suffered complications.......
Rubella? Has anyone met a rubella damaged deaf/blind child.
She has a right to refuse but its shortsighted, at best.

To people who say she is putting other kids at risk- how is that? If other kids are vaccinated, they are at no risk or whatsoever, so the only child she is putting at risk is her own.

Facts don't mean anything to a closed mind.

It's friendship ending stuff for me.

nine another graph...

I think looking at reported cases is a more accurate picture than deaths as a PP said above.

Lady - she is putting new borns at risk.

To people who say she is putting other kids at risk- how is that? If other kids are vaccinated, they are at no risk or whatsoever, so the only child she is putting at risk is her own.

Some children can't be vaccinated for medical reasons. They rely on all other children being vaccinated to protect them, the whole herd immunity thing.

@LadyRenoir because some children can't have the vaccine. Often the ones who would be most at risk of they caught these diseases.

debate
noun [ C or U ] uk /dɪˈbeɪt/ us /dɪˈbeɪt/

B2 (a) serious discussion of a subject in which many people take part:

• which bit of this definition is not happening?

Well in oz they wouldn’t be allowed to daycare or school or interesting now claim benefits if you don’t vaccinate

Because *LadyRenoir: there are some children whose health is so precarious for one reason or another, that they CANNOT be exposed even to the dead bacteria in vaccines. And another poster mentioned a child who was made vulnerable because of chemo treatment for cancer and therefore had reduced immunity.

The more unvaccinated children there are about, the more likelihood that a child whose parents don't have the luxury of getting them vaccinated, will get infected. They are more vulnerable to infection and it is likely to be worse for them than for the average child.

Infection + compromised immune system + greater vulnerability + serious complications/death

Because not all people can be vaccinated due to being too young or it being medically unsafe to do so LadyRenoir. Herd immunity - you don't just vaccinate for yourself.

Nine you're right, there is never debate when it comes down to pure, proven science. Sorry 'bout that.