To think my friend is mad for refusing to vaccinate?

[FannyTheFlamingo]

I'll admit, I'm a bit ignorant on this subject. My DD is nearly 1 and she's been vaccinated. It wasn't something I gave too much thought to, I just did it because I thought it was for the best.

My friend has done her research and says that she doesn't want to risk her son getting brain damage from a vaccine. She says if he catches something and dies, she could forgive herself, but she couldn't if something happened as a result of a vaccination. Is she mad?

I'm hoping MN users have differing views and are much better informed than I am. I don't want to convince her to change her mind, but would like to offer her some pro vaccination advice.

Or do I just keep my beak out?

As mothers we should all be down on our knees thanking whatever deity you believe in for this deliverance for our children from these appalling diseases. Or better still thanking the scientists for their dedication and the NHS for supplying the vaccines.

Because people are still making money from peddling snake oil and preying on the worries of parents about conditions like autism.

But apparently it's offensive and ignorant to point that out.

It's American but sentiment still applies.
My DC's have also had the BCG jab as babies due to OH's family being from a country that doesn't routinely vaccinate.
It's a no brainier for me.

icandecide.com/white-papers/ICAN-HHS-Notice.pdf

Detection of Measles Virus Genomic RNA in Cerebrospinal Fluid of Children with Regressive Autism
www.jpands.org/vol9no2/bradstreet.pdf

Rats studied with amounts consistent with infant vaccines developed neurodevelopmental disorders.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21225508

Here is a 2008 PowerPoint presentation from the FDA, documenting their "40 year-old concerns" about oncogenesis (cancer-causing effects) of residual cell-substrates, including human DNA from aborted babies (human diploid tissue) used in vaccines given to infants and children.
www.regonline.com/custImages/240000/244811/NCNV%20III/Day%203/Session%209/Keith%20Peden,%20Ph.D..pdf

DNA

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20537553/. According to this study it's not safe even at residual amounts.

Toxicity of aluminum in pediatric populations
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22235057

2 vaccines cause increase in fetal deaths in 2009/2010
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23023030

SIDS after hexavalent vaccine
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18538957

Infant mortality and vaccines study
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3170075/

Both twins die after vaccines
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17654772

Fetal Deaths during 2008-2010 flu season
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3888271/

Grimbles - Nobody thinks autism is the 'worst possible thing that could 'happen' to you', do they? Nobody on this thread has said that it is. It isn't, you're right. My son with all his quirks is a delightful boy and fiercely intelligent, I would not change him. However it is not easy for parents or families, and on dark days I cry wondering how much easier his life would be for him without the condition, if he were able to socialise normally etc. I curse myself for not insisting on a c section, just in case the birth caused it.

My message wasn't really about vaccines, I just didn't like how you seemed to be minimising the daily struggles involved for both autistic kids and their parents. One pp said they sympathised with relatives who didn't get their kids vaccinated as they were worried it may cause autism, as the family was prone to it. Iirc you then jumped in saying they were wrong as autism isn't as bad as measles or whatever and made out anyone worrying about it is being ridiculous. I feel you just think autism's comparable to a mild cold or something? Surely people with relatives with it who have seen how their life's affected, are in a better position to judge!

Millions of lives have been saved through vaccine programmes and quack theories are putting children at risk!

What it boils down to is who do you trust, believe and respect?

A: The medical profession, the scientific community, researchers, governments and the WHO.

B: Randomers on the internet, homeopaths, and the people who post on the David Icke forums.

I think it’s stupid to not vaccinate the child, at the end of the day do you trust all the rubbish that you read off the net or do you trust medical science that has proven vaccines to work? Furthermore in not vaccinating your child you automatically put other children at risk.

Yep, she's mad.

I think once 80% of children are immunised then the others are all protected in a sense.

That's what my daughter's nursery told us once when every parent was hauled in for a meeting about not immunising our children.

@Phelangood. I never said anything about this thread. I was talking about anti-vax using children with autism as a warning against vaccinating your children. My initial comment was not in relation to another persons per - this thread is so fast moving that many replies are posted before you get a chance to complete your own.

Anything else is your supposition. My point is, and has been all along:

Anti-vax uses autism as a punishment of protecting your child against illness.

Anti-vax makes out autism is the worst thing that could happen and death or disability is better than having an autistic child. People with autism are just as valued and loved as nt children and are not to be viewed as lesser people.

Anti-vax lumps autism into a single category.

Having a child with autism isn't the worst thing in the world, children who have autism aren't lesser human beings and as vaccs don't cause autism anyway, using the condition to scare people is a shitty and offensive thing to do.

Your child is not a cautionary tale against vaccination. You should be angry that the anti-vax movement are using him, and thousands like him in this way, not offended at the people pointing it out.

Well it's simple, I trust the professionals not a random chancer flogging herbal crap who's spreading internet shite and fear

Still all quackery Jm151 post all the links you like but are they credible? Peer reviewed? Backed up by research?

Https:sciencebasedmedicine.org/vaccine-schedules-and-infant-mortality-a-false-relationship-promoted-by-the-anti-vaccine-movement/

Btw phelan, my nephew was recently diagnosed with autism.

Not that it should matter, you don't have to be autistic, or be close to someone who isn't NT to be offended by the anti-vax using them as a warning against vaccinating your kids.

No I don't believe in quackery, especially not when there's a charge or it's spouted without any peer reviewed evidence

Yes Grimbles there are always extremes of opinion, that's evil and ignorant if they're implying autistic kids are sub-human and the condition's a fate worse than death. I admit I've never seen any anti vac sites do this but I wouldn't bother reading quack forums and articles etc. I have read accounts of people whose children have been vaccine damaged, though and can see why they would be traumatised by their child changing personality overnight, and developing health problems, or even dying. Although vaccine damage is rare it's an absolute nightmare prospect. Then again so are serious complications from diseases.

There has been an insane, astronomic rise in autism since the eighties and nobody has proven why - it needs to be looked into.

@Jlm151 "Please don't patronise me."

I think you mistook my less strident tone than some people's as patronising. I normally don't like to be too combative, but so be it, I will make my points without the sugar coating:

What you are doing is evil. Children will die as a result of people like you. Having these arguments and spreading these lies doesn't make you special or validate whatever shit is in your life. Stop it.

"My husband is a GP who has seen many vaccine injuries, including SIDS in twins 6 hours following vaccination."

My imaginary dog has seen a lot of unicorns. Neither of our statements is evidence.

The kids I know personally who have autism were all recognised as having learning and development issues pretty much from the first milestones kids generally hit (i.e.they delayed hitting them). So way before they would have had the vaccines people fret about.

Try the Cochrane database - plenty peer-reviewed studies on there, backed up by INDEPENDENT research.

@Jlm151 Are you in the UK?

Anti Vaxxers aka Idiots who know better the doctors and scientists apparently.

Your right she’s is misguided sadly she’s not the only misguided person putting others at risk. And risking bringing back diseases we had nearly wiped out.

Applauds donquixotedelamwncha I couldn't agree with you more

What I am doing is providing my opinion, which as far as I'm aware I'm entitled too.

My opinion is based on my own life experiences and beliefs, which I have lived through. I have not claimed to be special and people are entitled to hear other people's stories. It's up to them whether they think mine is fabricated - as you clearly do, or otherwise.

I hope to god you or your child doesn't suffer a vaccine injury and you are left on your own to deal with it with a condition that no-one knows how to fix.

If it were any other product - let's say baked beans.. and thousands of people reported adverse effects including SIDS, meningitis, paralysis, speech regression, neurological issues, allergies, encephalitis - the onset of which occurred straight aferwards - everyone would be up in arms and the product investigated. Except baked beans aren't a multi-billion pound industry that heavily lobby governments.

Find me one vaccine safety study where a try placebo was used. They isn't one. How is that true science?

I hope to God my now adult child never catches a disease from someone whose parents have been idiots

If it were any other product - let's say baked beans.. and thousands of people reported adverse effects including SIDS, meningitis, paralysis, speech regression, neurological issues, allergies, encephalitis - the onset of which occurred straight aferwards - everyone would be up in arms and the product investigated

Do you actually believe vaccines haven't been investigated, and incredibly thoroughly tested and monitored?
This is the problem, right here. Ignore the facts, lap up the rubbish.

Jlm151 I worked as a nanny for a top sicnetist who has just retired after spending his life creating and researching vaccines including the cervical cancer vaccine and malaria.

So I think I’ll go oh his advice not some looney who Googled also if your dr is a GP telling ppl not to vaccinate their kids he needs striking off as he is a very dangerous person.

Do you actually believe that vaccines that contained mercury had been thoroughly tested and investigated? Soon removed when the real evidence demonstrates just how neuro-toxin they were.