To think my friend is mad for refusing to vaccinate?

[FannyTheFlamingo]

I'll admit, I'm a bit ignorant on this subject. My DD is nearly 1 and she's been vaccinated. It wasn't something I gave too much thought to, I just did it because I thought it was for the best.

My friend has done her research and says that she doesn't want to risk her son getting brain damage from a vaccine. She says if he catches something and dies, she could forgive herself, but she couldn't if something happened as a result of a vaccination. Is she mad?

I'm hoping MN users have differing views and are much better informed than I am. I don't want to convince her to change her mind, but would like to offer her some pro vaccination advice.

Or do I just keep my beak out?

Autism is, in at least a majority of cases, vaccine-injury.
Absolute tosh!

Does anyone want to guess what happened to the number of diagnoses of autism in Japan when they banned the MMR vaccination?

I know that one - no change.

The cases diagnosed in Japan rose due to improved diagnostics

The 'mercury' in vaccines is as likely to cause harm as the hydrogen in water is to set off an atomic explosion

But if it was the MMR causing autism then rates should have dropped significantly, regardless of improvements in diagnostics.

I think someone up thread already established that water is a clear danger to us all grimbles. After all my mum drank loads of the stuff and was then diagnosed with cancer. We should all immediately swap to drinking light ale because nobody got cancer in the olden days.

Grimbles the mmr and autism have nothing to do with each other. The problem is that it starts showing up at about the age they have it done.

FLOWER
Those graphs were heavily doctored

www.software3d.com/Home/Vax/Graphs.php

sciencebasedmedicine.org/vaccines-didnt-save-us-intellectual-dishonesty-at-its-most-naked/

Yes, I know frizzy, that was the point.

She's absolutely mental

Sorry grimbles im chasing my toddler around. I find the whole thing fascinating what they believe they don't seem to understand statistics or risk or probability at all. For example - you dont get tetanus if you make sure the wound bleeds and you clean it well and no children die of it anymore.
Do you know why they dont die of it?!? Because they have their jabs! Risking measles is one thing but risking tetanus?!?!

Autism is NOT caused by vaccines - what a load of rubbish. I know somebody who has worked in autism research for 30 years and kept an open mind and they say that line is a load of bullshit

Presenting my handy - dandy fuckwit detector :

Use of the word 'chemical' as a bad thing. Indicates total ignorance of basic science.

Use of the word 'toxin'. A sure sign of babble.

Expectation that anything can be safe. Nothing is.

DS1 was diagnosed with high functioning autism earlier this year.
His paediatrician said that at present they can't give a definitive reason about what causes autism. But she didn't mention vaccines at all. She did, however, refer him for genetic testing, as apparently there's growing evidence that there's a genetic basis for autism.
She also said that any subsequent DC we have will have a 10-15% increased risk of developing autism, which as far as I can see supports a genetic cause of autism far more than a vaccine cause of autism.

Gilead you may be onto something, I and my mother do have odd sensory issues!

Funnily enough I read earlier on that actually rubella in pregnant women can cause autism..... Meaning the mmr vaccine can prevent some cases!

I must admit, I'm not anti vac, I just judge each vaccination on its unique risks and merits at the time. However I don't fully understand why they vaccinate against rubella at the age they do! Having German measles earlier confers longer immunity meaning when the girl reaches childbearing age she will still be immune, and her baby won't be at risk. Whereas the booster given at 5 wears off after ten years or so so she will need another booster, which isn't routinely given. I am glad I had German measles as a kid and don't have to keep having boosters! As far as I know babies in the womb are the only group really at risk from this mild disease.

I kind of get that the vaccine reduces it in kids so it's less likely to be passed on to a pregnant woman

Also in further support of a genetic component, at the autism parent group I used to attend a lot of the dads and mums said they had started to suspect they actually had the condition themselves now they knew more about it! I also know a few families in which all siblings had the condition. Could be coincidence of course... It's a very interesting subject.

"done her research" usually means "can type stuff into Google", rather than "has higher level qualifications in statistics, medicine, & experimental design", plus extensive experience in that particular field.

This is it in a nutshell - in the vast majority of cases. You're not a specialist? Or a statistician? You're not going to understand the results of these clinical studies.....

Just a quick update.... my friend has said that the risk her unvaccinated son poses to other children is a bit far fetched! She said other stuff too, but that little nugget was the main thing that sticks in my mind.

I'm gobsmacked and appalled that she can be so flippant about other people's children. I'm not sure where we go from here 😞

“Done her research “. Ignore the stupid selfish bitch and hope that, unlike me, you or your family don’t have an immunocompromised condition that puts you at risk of death from the circulation of a virus that can be avoided if shits like her vaccinated their kids.

"done her research" usually means "can type stuff into Google", rather than "has higher level qualifications in statistics, medicine, & experimental design", plus extensive experience in that particular field.

How would she feel about her child becoming brain damaged from an illness that could be vaccinated against?

@sashh oh she could forgive herself if that happened! But not if something happened to him as a result of a vaccination. Presumably she could also forgive herself if something happened to someone else's child!

If she was my partner and our child was harmed by a lack of vaccination by choice, I know that I could never forgive her. Or if she was my child and my grandchild was hurt, or my sister, friend, neighbour...

You're friend is ignorant and selfish. She's neglecting her own child AND in the process is putting others by contributing to a reduction in herd immunity.

I've probably upset some anti-vaxxers - good.