To not understand why people don't understand men cannot be raped by a woman?

[TurquoiseChevrotain]

I've read a lot whenever this comes up on here or elsewhere, that it's 'terrible' and such an outdated view. Why is it? Why can't people understand what rape is? Men can be sexually assaulted by women, but not raped.

Sorry what spin did they put on it fresh?

Agree Holger it’s just plain offensive to say that if we want men to stop raping us we have to have a softly softly approach when ‘getting them on board’.

What makes you think that the men that are vile enough to do these crimes would listen to those men that don't?

They might not. But it is still far more within men as a sex's power to change things. The force for true change will have to come from men. They are the only ones who, if they wanted to, could change the way in which women are viewed and the way in which men, especially boys on the verge of manhood, learn to behave and to think and to act.

It is not only the 'vile' stuff that needs to be challenged, it's all the supposedly 'minor' stuff that feeds into it. It's the culture of entitlement, the culture of male ego, the culture of dismissiveness. And so many more things on top.

I don't hold out much hope.

Excellent posts Holger

holger

Yep yep

Women have asked nicely for centuries

It hasnt fucking worked

The big question is, why aren’t men as seething about this as they should be? Why aren’t they out on the streets demanding it be better? They all claim to love women, have mothers, sisters, daughters etc, so why aren’t they taking action to protect them?

Answer - they don’t think it’s their job and they don’t care enough because it doesn’t actually affect them.

Its all reported as sex game gone wrong...he was charged with attempted murder. All the headlines say sex game, but nothing about the court case

Sorry, I missed this response earlier rufus. Obviously we dont know all the details of that case but it was reported that the court were given the text messages the victim sent to the offender talking about her excitement of what they were going to do and discussing the gun. He had to be charged with attempted murder because he pulled the trigger of a loaded gun inside of her vagina and then ran away leaving her bleeding profusely. What else could they possibly charge him with? But I'm quite sure I read that the woman didn't deny she was a willing participant in the 'sex game' and had consented to a loaded gun being placed inside of her.
Was the offender charged with any sex offences or was it just the attempted murder charge?

having

Thats kind of my point

We dont know the details of the case as we are not in court....but the headlines said sex game gone wrong

Lots of reporting of crimes involving sex miss out ruddy great facts for headlines

How the media reports these things is important

And i think they could have charged him with other things rather than murder...but as i say its more the reporting i was concerned with

Actually the case the other day involving a man called warren lyttle had him charged with murder...and the bloody headline still said sex game gone wrong

Well it does sound like a sex game gone wrong in his case from the few reports I read on the story. No denial from the woman and some evidence to back up his 'mitigation'. It really isn't a good example to use if we are discussing misreporting.

Warren Lyttle is a better example of poor misleading reporting as he claimed it was a sex game but there was no evidence to support that and it was established that he killed her for money,

Sorry if this is a derailment (and if so just say and I'll cease and desist) but it's a question that always occurs to me when I read these threads:

What, precisely, is rape? I don't mean here about the definition- I mean what is at the heart of rape?

I have read many different things; all related but not the same. For instance a common statement is that rape is about power, not sex. Some have said rape is about hate, etc etc.

So another way of asking what I'm trying to ask: what is rape about? And how does it work, given the inherently sexual nature of the act? I have always taken rape to be at least partially to be about sex although the sense I get from these threads is that rape is not at all about sex. Is that just rhetorical or is it considered that rape is actually not about sex at all?

Here in the US, rape requires penetration but not necessarily a penis (legally), so here women can be charged with the rape of a man. And I think in some jurisdictions (like the Military) it just says "sexual acts" not necessarily penetration.

hiddenmnetter

I was reading about a study on rapists. I think people say it's about power because it requires power and that's part of the kick. But according to some of the rapists, it's not just about power on it's own, it's also about getting sex.

It's entitlement to sex, using power to get it. That's why people say it's about power. Because if the person didn't have the power, it wouldn't happen. And of course, there are all the other men, who have loads of power, but never use it to rape a woman.

As we have said a number of time neither of us having knows the real details of that first case

But as i said, and still maintain, its the misreporting of these types of cases that i object to

Especially in the case of my 2nd example and the 80 year old both of which have been reported in the media as sex games gone wrong with even less evidence

I am going to leave this here

If we are unable to agree that misreporting is an issue then i dont see the point in continuing

Im certainly not going to say that its not a problem

When the penis touches the entrance of the vagina it is classed as rape.

HolgerDanske

the problem as I see it is that "out on the streets demanding it be better" (from cherry's post) is far too late.

It starts from when they are born all the way through school, people (and posters on here do it too) list excuse after excuse for bad behaviour.

by the time they get out in to the real world their minds are already set in that they believe that they are entitled to do what they want to who they want.

To get anything like a real change there would have to have a seismic shift in everything from footballers and their wags (there are other examples of bad choices of hero worship), newspapers (the daily mail's side bar of shame), TV (Kardashians, TOWIE), Hollywood and films (harvey weinstein, casting couch etc.) and how children are brought up and how issues are dealt with in schools.

That is absolutely true. And that change can still only come from men.

But as has already been stated, they really don't give much of a fuck.

Even the good ones have no clue what it's like, how it feels to be a woman and live every day with the knowledge of what routinely happens to women, that it could happen to you or your children, the countless times in a life where this knowledge impacts upon you, never mind the colossal impacts if it actually happens to you and the lifelong repercussions of it.

'Men are afraid that will women will laugh at them; Women are afraid that men will kill them.' - This is one of the most profound things that has ever been said to illustrate the chasm in experience, the deep, deep disconnect between our experience and theirs.

And that change can still only come from men.

This is the only bit that I disagree with, it has to come from everybody both male a female.

It would be a shift in the whole of society's thinking not just male. (but mainly male)

Well we will have to disagree on that.

Yes, of course women bear some responsibility too. But we've been screaming, pleading, imploring, discussing, explaining for generations now and it makes little difference.

I'm not absolving women of their responsibility, I'm saying it is men, and only men, that can drive the actual change. Men who need to see that they are the problem, and they can fix it.

the chasm in experience, the deep, deep disconnect between our experience and theirs

I feel really intolerant of people on the other side of that chasm, in a v short chat about cyberstalking recently and fear for personal safety (not under English law) someone’s fear was false accusations of sexual impropriety - even though I know this could potentially have life changing consequences, I just can’t imagine what it must be like over there, where that’s your fear, when on this side of the chasm it’s life threatening.

'Men are afraid that will women will laugh at them; Women are afraid that men will kill them.'

So true..

And men are afraid men will kill them.

Really? I don't think their perception of the very real risk is the same as women's.