To not understand why people don't understand men cannot be raped by a woman?

[TurquoiseChevrotain]

I've read a lot whenever this comes up on here or elsewhere, that it's 'terrible' and such an outdated view. Why is it? Why can't people understand what rape is? Men can be sexually assaulted by women, but not raped.

Just reading that Guardian article someone linked and thought this statistic was interesting.

"In 2010, the largest survey of its type in the world – the US Centre for Disease Control's National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey – found that the rates of men being forced to penetrate women over the previous year were identical to the rates of women reporting being raped: 1.1%."

I'm sorry wine but rape victims are not always pinned down. How many times on here does s woman start a thread describing being raped by her partner but the woman hasn't perceived it as rape because her partner has 'persuaded' her into having sex even though she gas said no and made it clear she doesn't want sex. Just because he hasn't pinned her down doesn't mean she wasn't raped. Most rapes are carried out by somebody the victim knows well and there is often a psychological element which means there is no physical power struggle.

I'm not at all sure about those statistics.

Because the guardian have also said:

In 2015-16, police recorded 23,851 reports of adults being raped – nearly all of them women –

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2016/oct/13/reported-rapes-in-england-and-wales-double-in-five-years

Rape Crisis confirm that a massively high number of them are not reporting it to the police. Estimates are that there are 85,000 women a year who are raped.

Some people don’t seem to understand there’s the sexual violence and then there may or may not be additional violence (such as restraint) to accomplish it

Men are more likely to report being raped than women are.

A woman has to pin him down, force him into getting an erection and then jump on top. At any point he could just push her off

That's just ignorant nonsense. Might as well say its only rape when its a stranger jumping out from behind a bush.

MomToWedThorFriday please come back and join in the discussion.

What’s wrong with those of us currently joining in? 👹

I want one of the "you're all man hating miserable bitter harridans" campaign to put their money where their mouths are for once.

Oh. Well I’m letting the side down, I’ve never really understood why I shouldn’t hate men when they give me so much ammunition.

My deepest apologies for popping off to parent Bertrand

I feel no need to discuss further. We fundamentally disagree, clearly. You won’t change my mind that rape should be defined as forced sex, not ‘penetration.’ I won’t change your mind that it will require a penis. So what’s the point?

Thank you for coming back.As I said. I am still in the fence about that- I've explained why I think it, but I can see why others think differently.. I was more concerned with the fact that you have seen on this thread man haters, miserable bitter harridans and people who don't care about men and boys who have been raped. i would really like to know how you reached that conclusion.

Mom I think you’re either obtuse or you’ve genuinely misunderstood. People aren’t asking you to justify your feelings on the definition of rape. They’re asking what’s so offensive about stating facts and also where there’s been bitterness and man-hating?

It’s tone, Bertrand rather than content. As soon as somebody disagrees with the notion that men can’t ever be raped by women, so many just get insulting/patronising. It’s incredibly frustrating to have your opinion shot down immediately, and it puts people off debate. as does being repeatedly called out for not being online 24/7

Cherry I find it offensive to insult victims - of either sex/gender - by telling them they haven’t/can’t be raped. If a man is forced into intercourse by anybody, regardless of genitalia, they have as much right to consider themselves a rape victims as a woman does IMO. The legal definition doesn’t change that - to me.

The bitterness and man hating is just inherent. It’s implied by the mere denial of their victim status.

I acknowledge that it is incredibly rare, that rape figures are disgusting and conviction rates even more so. I just don’t think the rarity of an occurrence lessens the impact.

Could you link to an offending post please?

And I asked you to respond twice. Because you posted a pretty unpleasant post then buggered off!

"The bitterness and man hating is just inherent. It’s implied by the mere denial of their victim status."

Nobody is denying their victim status. The discussion is about what they are victims of.

I'm going to be out for a couple of hours now, so won't be able to respond.

I'm sorry wine but rape victims are not always pinned down. How many times on here does s woman start a thread describing being raped by her partner but the woman hasn't perceived it as rape because her partner has 'persuaded' her into having sex even though she gas said no and made it clear she doesn't want sex.

Rape is about physical dominance. Being persuaded is not rape. That is changing your mind.

Rape is I'm going to overpower you and do what I want regardless of what you want to do. You are right that no force actually has to be used but the threat of it has to be there. That is what makes it so bad. It is powerlessness. If you are free to get up and walk off at any point, that is not rape.

No one has told a male rape victim that they haven’t been raped You took exception to people saying most rapists are male and compared it to racism. Why are you making out that lots of people have been told they weren’t raped or their assault has been minimised?

No, the man hating isn’t inherent I’m afraid you’ll have to point it out.

Women aren't victims of rape if a penis is not involved currently either.

Rape is about physical dominance. Being persuaded is not rape. That is changing your mind.

That is complete and utter dangerous bollocks!! Please go and educate yourself on true consent.

Women aren't victims of rape if a penis is not involved currently either.

This is also wrong IMO.

That is complete and utter dangerous bollocks!! Please go and educate yourself on true consent

Totally agree, coercion IS rape, I can’t believe people think it’s about being strong

@Winebottle that's a load of shit really. As soon as you say no, it's rape. What if you freeze? Yet you're free to get up and go, is that no longer rape?

Totally agree, coercion IS rape, I can’t believe people think it’s about being strong

You are agreeing with me then. Coercion is force or threats of it which I said is rape.

Saying no to sex and then at a later point in time consenting to it freely is not rape.