17 year old girl walking home sexually assaulted by multiple, unconnected men

[NoLoveofMine]

An absolutely horrendous case in which a 17 year old girl trying to get home on a night out was subject to multiple serious sexual assaults it seems by men completely unconnected to one another. What does this say about society, that different men in a small geographical location within the space of an hour all had such contempt for women and girls they chose to commit these abhorrent attacks on her? It's hideous. I don't usually start threads in this section of the board but I feel so enraged by these attacks and feel more should be aware of this misogyny.

[http://news.met.police.uk/news/appeal-after-woman-sexually-assaulted-by-multiple-suspects-following-night-out-267602]

I do think there is an issue around education though & I think teenagers can be confused by the onslaught of porn & perhaps what they think is expected of them & what they think girls like. I'm sure I read/saw an article where boys thought girls liked having their hair pulled/neck choked (fine if you do) simply because that's what they had been exposed to & girls felt that they had to like it.

The other issue where I am conflicted is on one hand it's every woman's right to post sexually suggestive images of themselves (not about nudity) & adult men can separate the image from the person. However I do think for young people growing up it's confusing & can encourage boys to see girls as objects & girls feel pressure to look a certain way. I can't articulate it very well but to me it just emphasises how the most important thing a woman can offer is her looks.

We have to get rid of the mindset that "it's only cat calling" "it's only an arse pinch" "well, at least he didn't rape me".

I remember being on a thread about cat calling, and there were plenty of posters who found this harmless, and even a compliment

You're right, we have to get rid of this mindset.

We have the perfect platform; school. They need to spend less time on algebra, and more time on being human beings; sexual assault, coercion, invading personal space, attitudes towards women, unacceptable comments, bullying.....

Parents may not be able to do this, for whatever reason, maybe they're arseholes too, maybe they're in a DV situation...but we have a HUGE platform at school to reach children early.

Rufus has it.

The narrative is....

"Men shouldn't rape, abuse, assault or harrass women, nor should they be complicit in the culture that feeds it"

Not seeing a problem with it at all?

It's clearly a lot of men. Not only because of the number of attacks but because of those such as this, where separate men all chose to attack a vulnerable girl

I would say that implies a higher proportion of the kind of men who hang around certain areas in the middle of the night are likely to behave this way, rather than all men.

I would say that implies a higher proportion of the kind of men who hang around certain areas in the middle of the night are likely to behave this way, rather than all men.

Or on trains in the evening? www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/girl-17-sexually-assaulted-twice-great-western-railways-newquay-plymouth-train-british-transport-a7905671.html

Lots of people are out at midnight on a Friday. It's far too many men.

Ah yes, the old "you should be grateful for the attention" narrative.

Which is basically another way of saying, your worth is in your attractiveness to men, horrific in itself.

It is absolutely nothing to do with your level or percieved "attractiveness" anyway.

It's about power, and viewing all women and girls as property, wank socks and, most importantly, property.

Someone upthread said about the whole "I never cared about assault and harrassment of women until I had daughters" attitude.

This is a part of the problem too.

It's basically saying "women who aren't my property are fair game^, isn't it??

I don't understand the thing about men not standing up and denouncing it. Surely most men rightly denounce sexual assault?

Where I live this sort of thing happens very rarely

I'm guessing you don't live in a heavily populated city then? It stands to reason that with fewer people around there will be fewer crimes. Plus of course all the incidents that just go unreported and the only people to ever know are the victims and the attackers.

As I said above it's not surprising when you consider most men teach each other to see women - apart from a few exceptions; mother, gran, wife, daughter - as things to fuck, as not fully human. When you view women through that mindset there is no sympathy for a fellow human in distress, there is opportunity, and entitlement, and contempt at the knowledge a young woman was just sexually active, whether she consented or not is of no importance...

At my daughter's secondary school (and have heard similar reports from others) there's an issue with porn-linked derogatory comments aimed at girls, but if a girl has a problem with it she is castigated by other girls as well as boys, and called a prick tease etc.
There's also a complete dismissal of poor behaviour (controlling, borderline sexually aggressive behaviour) from some boys which school repeatedly dismiss as "monkey love" - immature boys not knowing how to show their interest in girls and instead of being courteous, wanting to please them, treating them badly. If one girl won't put up with it, there are several others ready and waiting to accept this treatment.
There's no need for boys/men to treat girls/women well, because it's accepted and the girls/women not putting up with it are called frigid or lesbians.

I don't understand the thing about men not standing up and denouncing it. Surely most men rightly denounce sexual assault?

What do they do to prevent it? They need to challenge other men on misogyny, on rape jokes, on comments degrading women, objectifying women, on victim blaming. Not just say "not all men, I don't do it".

Not many people denounce sexual assault, most of the time lots of people fall over themselves to blame the woman and to work out what she did to deserve it.

It's far too many men

Absolutely. I wasn't arguing against that statement.

Ooops...too many "property"s in there!

Well..you get my drift!

Isn't the narrative ... Men shouldn't rape people

I'd hope so, yes, but isn't it a bit worrying if it drifts off into suggestions that all men are somehow complicit in the attitudes which drive violence?

Maybe I mix in the wrong company, but while I'm the first to agree that too many men support misogyny, I really can't bring myself to believe this applies to all

Poor poor girl my heart goes out to her.

Sadly men have always hated women at least in the last few thousand years, see us inferior, chattel. Situations such as this girls are not new, not so long ago though she would not have been believed, certainly that the abuse was not from 3 different men. What is different now is that the abuse by different unconnected men can be backed up by camera footage.

I wonder sometimes if I will ever see a day where all women from around the globe, that is half of our population will stand up and say 'no, this is not happening any more. This will stop here now or we will die trying'. The way things are going though, the errosion of women's rights around the world, the invading of woman only spaces, the violent porn that is easily accessed mainly by males from a young age. It all helps to fuel abuse against women by men.

Out of all of my female friends I don't know a single one that has never been abused in some way by men. How fucking sad is that?

Someone upthread said about the whole "I never cared about assault and harrassment of women until I had daughters" attitude.

I liked this tweet in reference to the current "I hate rape culture - because I have a daughter" story -

"As the father of 25 daughters, I'm starting to think women might actually be people..."

I did Lana and agree on the "daughters" point. Men should be opposed to misogyny because they don't want any women to experience it, not because they don't want one particular woman to.

If its any help puzzled

I think masses and masses of women are complicit as well

If we are using the broad brush that says that anyone who just sits there when they hear a rape joke, or some plonker making a rude comment about women etc

I appreciate that fear can play a part and people should stay safe, but some people dont do it cos they dont want to be seen as THAT woman or a lesser male

And i think loads of people do that

"I don't understand the thing about men not standing up and denouncing it. Surely most men rightly denounce sexual assault?"

Go to your local pub and just listen when a rape case is going on that involves someone famous/footballer etc.

Listen to the supporters of the likes of Harvey W, the attitude towards Jason Momoa's rape 'joke'.

Were are the protesters outside of the Courts, when the defense use the victims appearance/behaviour/clothing as a reason why she was raped/sexually abused, citing it as normal male behaviour?

If I think about the men of my acquaintance there are several that speak disrespectfully to women, speak inappropriately about women and expect women to scurry around looking after them whilst they sit on their arses. I don't think any of these men realise they see women as lesser and if it's pointed out to them they get pissed off. These are educated, successful men that have women they love in their lives. They've literally got it all but they still need someone to look down on. It doesn't take a huge leap of imagination to see if this is what's going on with the 'good guys' what's happening with other men who give even less of a shit about women is what is being reported here.

Where did I say it was her fault Rufus? I didn't. In fact I've lived in that exact area and I'm not at all surprised by this.

I was referring to the current trend amongst police forces to omit certain pieces of information from descriptions despite them making it much more likely the person will be caught.

When I lived there I always wore trousers and long sleeves tops and if I wanted to wear something different I would put it in my bag and change when out of the area because otherwise I would get a world of hassle.

Shurely shome mishtake

I think a lot of us were confused about this part

"If its any help puzzled
I think masses and masses of women are complicit as well"

Complicit isn't the right word, when we are likely to be a victim. As the Black Rights movements needed White people to champion their cause, so Men have to be vocal about changing everyday sexism.

The people at the top have to want change, which, in this cause, are Men.

birds

Fair enough, I probably didnt realise the difference

What word would you suggest...not being snide but i think the premise is fair i just may have the wording wrong