17 year old girl walking home sexually assaulted by multiple, unconnected men

[NoLoveofMine]

An absolutely horrendous case in which a 17 year old girl trying to get home on a night out was subject to multiple serious sexual assaults it seems by men completely unconnected to one another. What does this say about society, that different men in a small geographical location within the space of an hour all had such contempt for women and girls they chose to commit these abhorrent attacks on her? It's hideous. I don't usually start threads in this section of the board but I feel so enraged by these attacks and feel more should be aware of this misogyny.

[http://news.met.police.uk/news/appeal-after-woman-sexually-assaulted-by-multiple-suspects-following-night-out-267602]

We are allowed on MN to discuss which cultures are worse for women. I am not a great fan of Saudi culture and their treatment of women for example and plenty of Saudis would be disgusted I live alone and show my legs. Luckily in the UK we are free to discuss it all including on MN.

My 10 year old's best friend is a girl (his cousin who was born a week after he was) so I'm glad he knows he can actually play with girls. Though that may be different because she's a "safe" girl as she's related. Maybe he would be made fun of if he played with other girls.

I asked him and he said that lots of girls play gaga ball (a sport that they learned at summer day camp) so he plays that with them and "Maddie is REALLY good."

www.reclaimthenight.co.uk/

If you are in London and want to do something to protest , this is a great event to attend!

True. Rape, domestic abuse, and sexism didn’t exist before they moved here. You know, them

Why do you never holiday in the Middle East? What do you think would happen if you walked around there in regular clothes? Why don't women leave the house without a male guardian in most of these cultures? I'll give you a clue...It's because of the MEN there. I'm wrong? Ok go holiday in the Middle East then (and I'm not talking the tourity parts I'm talking about the real middle east).

I went to Egypt recently, which is meant to be touristy, was harassed non stop even with my boyfriend, have never experienced anything like it, was not safe for me to leave Hotel complex. I don't want those MEN in this country.

We are all able to influence our own corner. As mothers, fathers, teachers, sisters, friends, activists, colleagues.

I explicitly teach my sons about treating others with respect. Everyone. We talk about relationships. About differences. I talk to my brothers. I tell my sons and family about keeping safe. Young men are still more likely to be beaten up. Young women are still more likely to be sexually assaulted. And often by people they know.

I travel on my own, go to bars on my own, dress how I like.

I’ve no problem about talking about culture. It’s good to get things out in the open. Disagreement is good. Shutting talks down isn’t. Personally I think all cultures oppress women to some degree, however walking alone in India or Italy for example is very intimidating.

We have to keep doing this.

The level of street harassment I encountered as a young woman in Italy was just appalling. Infinitely worse that the Islamic society I know best, which is morocco. Never had an issue there; on the contrary, many pleasant and mutually respectful interactions with both men and women,

The street harassment/assault i encountered in places like Egypt and Turkey over months was ridiculous- nothing like i ever experienced in the many years I've lived in the UK. I have wondered if the influx of young men from these regions has caused an increase in casual/street harrassment and assault. Seems it's not really acceptable to discuss this.

I have lived in lots of different countries and been harassed and raped and assaulted by men of all colours, creeds and ages. It's not happened for ages because I'm an old woman now so I can promise you it's nothing to do with an influx of young men from 'these regions'.

I find the racist narrative that quite often permeates discussions around street harassment on MN really distasteful. Here's a summary of stats around street harassment from around the world: www.stopstreetharassment.org/resources/statistics/statistics-academic-studies/ The numbers are shockingly high in every country.

This article is interesting too: www.thedebrief.co.uk/news/real-life/why-is-sexual-harassment-not-illegal-in-the-uk-20160262317

I don't care if you find it distasteful - i know the crazy high levels of harassment and assault I experienced (as an unaccompanied woman) in some other countries was nothing like I experienced in the UK and that doesnt let creeps from the UK off. Why are folk so against getting as clear a picture as possible - whatever that is.

And looking at your street stats from around the world - yes i've been harrassed in the UK (worst one on the underground wasn't from the UK though) and yes I've been harassed in Egypt and Turkey - difference was in Turkey it was practically every day - and scary stuff like being jumped by a gang in Istanbul, had the drivers and tea boy of an overnight bus threaten and assault us. Had the receptionist in our hotel openy paw me repeatedly. We can be nice and polite about talking about this so as not to offend sensibilities or we can talk openly to hoefully get a true picture of what is going on.

Yes - not pc to say but walking down a street as an attractive 20 something dressed modestly albeit western style with a similar friend in Cairo is ahem eye opening. OFF THE SCALE harrassment from most men. Nothing approaching anything I ever experienced in Europe even Italy. My friend and I ended up confined to our hotel room. Couldn't even eat out due to the waiters.

I was thinking about this yesterday. My 17 year old DD came home from college a bit upset. I asked if she was ok and she said that twice walking home from the train station she'd been harassed/catcalled ('nice tits' and some man making lewd gestures at her). She felt threatened and didn't know how to handle it. I was thinking how much already in her life she's had to put up with this, not only in the street but at school. In year 10 and 11 she was subject to a lot of verbal sexual harassment (I won't even repeat some of the stuff said) yet the school completely minimised it - this is just banter between kids, basically. The only punishment that happened was to my DD when she snapped and shouted at one of them to fuck off when he wouldn't let up telling her what he was going to do to her. The (male) teacher threw her out of the classroom and her prefect tie was banished.

This is her experience of male sexual harassment and what happens when it is challenged.

The school didn't do enough at all even when we registered a complaint, and she is glad to be out of there.

But what's going wrong, that young boys are saying this stuff and it's seen as 'banter' which is absolutely fine?

I have a 14 year old DS. Dh and I are doing our best to raise him as a respectful and thoughtful boy. We've talked a lot about porn and he agrees that it fosters a disrespect and even hatred for girls, and he sees boys in his school affected by this. Boys who play GTA 5 etc, and think nothing of it. I hope that he keeps his lovely gentle respectful nature, it's so hard in a society where he's told what he should be.

I don't know how more to help, really, except to keep talking. Keep being open. He's started watching the Big Bang Theory and it's opened up some good discussions about treatment of women - he's outraged at Howard's attitude in the first couple of seasons. So I'm glad he's seeing that.

I'm so sorry for that poor girl

Madhairday I'm very sorry to read of your daughter's experiences, sadly it doesn't surprise me. Myself and other girls I know have suffered street harassment regularly from a young age, 14 was my first instance; I know how your daughter feels as it is so demeaning, belittling, intimidating and just grinds you down. It can be very threatening which I think is part of the motive for many harassers - they enjoy the power over women and girls and being able to make us feel uncomfortable whilst reminding us of how we're seen and our worth being our bodies to them. I'm not sure how best to deal with it either but have been recommended classes in body combat/self-defence - of course this doesn't solve the problem in any way but might help with confidence, so perhaps your daughter could think about that too. Also remind her she isn't alone as I'm sure she sadly knows, this happens to so many girls and women so often. I'm also enraged at her experiences at school and that the school offered her no support and there were no reprucussions for the boys who harassed her - teaching them the view they've come to have so young of girls and women is perfectly fine. It's really worrying how young an age some boys have formed this view of girls and women by. I have friends who've been harassed in the street by boys in school uniform, these attitudes are being formed so young and with schools like your daughter's not challenging it and sanctioning her for reacting it just reinforces that it's fine and tells girls they have to put up with it.

Your son sounds great and it's really good he's noticing sexism and commenting on it. I'd say carrying on discussing it with him would be good as he's clearly bothered by it himself which is positive, maybe your daughter could talk to him about street harassment, the boys at her school and how that made her feel. I talk to my brothers a lot about these things, particularly the elder of the two but am doing so more with the younger one as well.

I hope your daughter is doing alright, sending her support through you!

I agree about it seeming more prevalent now that young women feel more able to talk about it.
Sexual harassment is nothing new. I grew up in London and saw my first flasher at age 11 (a white man btw, not from ME). He wasn't the last one either (all were white men). Speaking up is scary but if we don't do it, and don't encourage our children to speak up, how will this ever be stopped?

I have wondered if the influx of young men from these regions has caused an increase in casual/street harrassment and assault

there is another thread running where women are recounting their experiences, its all Exes, friends, co workers, cousins and community workers galore over there

I get the argument and the concern. but its a global issue that cuts across cultures

The time I've felt most threatened by a group of men was in the City one afternoon. This bunch of middle class white blokes had been drinking all afternoon and were really scarily sexually aggressive. I've never been that scared of men in Turkey, South America, Asia or North Africa.

Unless there's a demonstrable difference in levels of harassment in areas with large immigrant populations (and I've seen evidence or reports to suggest that is the case - is there any?), then I think it's divisive and it's taking the focus off what the real issue is. It's not immigration, it's men. All of them.

Thank you for your lovely post, NoLoveOfMine. I'm so sorry you've had such experiences too. It's utterly crap.

My dd is OK. She's very strong in her mind so tends to cope, but I could see she was very shaken by this yesterday. I'm going to have a longer chat with her and ds, you're right that getting her to talk to him is a good idea too. He was very angry when this thing happened at school, and I really do think he is outraged at sexism and sexual aggression. My dh is brilliant so he has a good role model so we are lucky I guess. But we all need to play our part in raising our boys to have an understanding of these issues and respect for women, because for so many boys sadly this isn't happening so they're forming their attitudes from things they see on the Internet and their friends say. It's very worrying.

Is there an increase in street harassment or are women becoming less tolerant of it?

@BertrandRussell less tolerant. Not just that but while not completely,some of the stigma is dying down as well. There are safe spaces,safe women where another woman can come and say her story and she will get (mostly) a sympathetic ear and no judgement.
A while ago,you couldn’t possibly complain about something like street harassment because the majority of responses would be “be flattered you dumbass” or “what did you expect dressed like that/going in that area etc”.
There still are plenty of victim blaming twats, but I feel that the voices of solidarity are much louder.

I'm glad your daughter is alright after the street harassment she suffered Madhairday - she sounds fantastic though it's awful that she and other women and girls have to find ways of coping with it. She's not alone in being shaken by it; it's demeaning, upsetting and intimidating. I think her talking about this kind of thing to your son might help both - I find it quite heartening talking to my brothers about it, especially when they engage and I can see it has an impact on them (the elder of my brothers challenges his peers at school on sexism regularly now, and tells me of doing so). It's fantastic your son is so engaged and thinks about these issues already, he'll be making a real difference and sounds lovely. Given he is I think it could be helpful for both him and your daughter to discuss things such as the street harassment she suffers, and the harassment at school - hopefully she'll be heartened by having a supportive brother and he'll be enraged at the misogyny and channel this positively. Hopefully she's able to discuss it with her friends too as sadly I'm sure many of them will have similar experiences. As someone the same age as her I can identify a great deal with her feelings on this. I completely agree in terms of raising boys and you and your husband are clearly doing this excellently if I may say so!

I've just been reading this article and this 'safety work' is very familiar to me although I don't think I've ever put it into words. I've become increasingly aware of how men I know move about the world and view it it in a very different way than I do.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-41614720