17 year old girl walking home sexually assaulted by multiple, unconnected men

[NoLoveofMine]

An absolutely horrendous case in which a 17 year old girl trying to get home on a night out was subject to multiple serious sexual assaults it seems by men completely unconnected to one another. What does this say about society, that different men in a small geographical location within the space of an hour all had such contempt for women and girls they chose to commit these abhorrent attacks on her? It's hideous. I don't usually start threads in this section of the board but I feel so enraged by these attacks and feel more should be aware of this misogyny.

[http://news.met.police.uk/news/appeal-after-woman-sexually-assaulted-by-multiple-suspects-following-night-out-267602]

Stop derailing please Puzzledandpissedoff. I'm shocked that's what you take from this horrific case, one of so many. Men need to challenge other men on misogyny, sexist jokes, degrading comments about women and girls, stop these attitudes being normalised. That's "speaking out".

What the fuck are the people in London doing? Why are they going on with their normal everyday lives why are they going to concerts, why are they getting on the tube. Don't they understand that there is a risk of a terrorist attack. Surely it is good practice to keep themselves safe. Don't they understand that some people want to hurt them, as Londoners they need to take steps to keep themselves safe. Oh hold on we don't say that about other crimes do we, just about rape. Just about women.

"You also say that by doing nothing, men are as good as complicit; what are you doing about it?"

Are you asking what women should be doing to end male violence towards women? Why is that something women should be doing?

Ok so by the prevailing opinion, @ConciseandNice ‘s son is luring all his drunk friends back to his flat so he can rape them. Because all men are rapists.

This is not the "prevailing opinion". Please stop misrepresenting.

It's obvious that male violence is the problem, but until this can be discussed and tackled without the predictable shouts of "not all men" and "women rape too" () and the inevitable shut down of conversation.
Statistically, violent crime is more likely to be carried out by men.
Statistically, sexual assault is more likely to be carried out by men.
Statistically, domestic violence is more likely to be carried out by men.
So why can this not be talked about without having to refer to the small minority of women (some of them trans women appearing in female stats) with equal weight?

If you read the stories on everydaysexism.com then sadly you will see there are plenty of men and boys out there who are willing to assault/harass/discriminate against women and girls

God the ususal shit of "women do it too" (actually they don't) and "not all men" (really - honestly you'd have to wonder) as if that was the point.

I read the OP and the most depressing thing for me (apart from thinking about that poor girl) was that I was not surprised. I am older now but at 17 I would absolutely have expected to be in high danger of being assaulted if I walked down a city street at night on my own. I grew up in a small nice city, my dad was one of the gentlest men you could meet, went to all-girls school so never encountered male aggression in school, no brothers, my cousins were lovely to me, tv wasn't particularly violent at the time. And yet even then I knew that the the world was a violent scary place for women and I absolutely could not trust that all those nice men we are all married to/daughters of/sisters of would be the ones I'd meet on the street - or maybe that they would continue to be nice if I was a young drunk girl. How is this level of normalised violence and sexual aggression and rape allowed to continue year after year. Something is very wrong with men - maybe not all of them, but enough for it to significantly impact a lot of innocent women.

I listened to an excellent program (On Point on NPR in US) about the Las Vagas shooting last week. Lots of good discussion about guns etc. Then a woman called in and said "there are 3 men on the panel and you are absolutely avoiding the massive gender issue- 99 percent of these shootings are carried out by men - why not discuss that?". They acknowledged it was an excellent point, really pertinent, took a break and ... didn't discuss it.

At some point don't we have to say either is this the way it is (in which case maybe curfews or rules for men about how they can go about in public??) or can we change it. First thing about changing it is acknowledging that this is a huge problem = and yet there are already the posts of "women are abusive too"/"girls shouldn't be drunk and out at night"

A few days ago, Julie Bindel on Twitter made a comment about rape, suggesting it wouldn't happen if men chose not to rape.
Obviously a very simplistic remark, but the replies were mostly people falling over themselves to make sure that poor men aren't blamed for women being raped.
When that woman was pushed over nearly into a bus lane on a bridge in London by a male jogger, so many of the comments were about what must she have done to deserve it.
It's not just men that are mysoginistic, it's women too, we're conditioned to see women as guilty and deserving of poor treatment.

But this article doesn’t say the gender of the “member of the public” who found the girl in a state of undress on the floor and called 999. That may have been a man. It might not have been- but that man was able to “control” himself enough to do the decent thing and call for help, and not pick her up and carry away to assault her. Poor, poor girl. So young and this will live with her forever and frame her young life. Absolute bastards.

Very true JoanneCoften. The comments on that incident on Putney Bridge were horrendous, so many people desperately blaming the woman, even spending hours going over the CCTV footage, freezing it to try to "prove" she was the aggressor, it was her fault etc. The defaulting to blaming women for male violence was incredible.

Great posts birdsdestiny and pallisers.

I’m not misrepresenting. I’m not a GF or a mansplainer or a racist or a victim blamer; I’m actually here for an intelligent discussion. That doesn’t mean I can’t ask questions and get answers though.

also the weinstein thing threw up some interesting articles commenting on men speaking out saying "as the father of daughters". Lots of that on this thread too "he has daughters" etc. Acknowledging that women are entirely deserving of respect, bodily integrity, freedom from rape and violence just by virtue of their humanity rather than seeing them as a reference point to men (mothers, sisters, wives, daughters, colleagues, friends) would be a small start in shifting all of society's thinking about this.

Ok so by the prevailing opinion, @ConciseandNice ‘s son is luring all his drunk friends back to his flat so he can rape them. Because all men are rapists. Or is he the exception? And if he can be the exception then why can’t any other men be?

It's not the "prevailing opinion".
And no one is saying all men are rapists, not one person has said explicity that all men are rapists.
What we have said is that the vast, vast majority of men are complicit in a culture where assaulting, belittling and raping women is normal.

Most men are complicit in this.

Everytime there is a joke in the office about raping a woman, and it's not called out, or actually laughed at, every single man in that office, even the nice family man, becomes complicit in that rape culture.

Just because said family man would never countenence raping, or sexually assaulting someone, it doesn't mean he is not joining in the general culture of it.

When men stay silent, or laugh along, they are expressly giving their approval of sexual violence.
If they called it out, each and every time, they would truly be an exception.
It's interesting that they never do call it out though....

Stop derailing please Puzzledandpissedoff. I'm shocked that's what you take from this horrific case, one of so many

You mean you don't like the fact I mentioned it?

And FWIW I take a great deal from this thread about such dreadful attacks, but last time I looked you don't get to dictate - at least within talk guidelines - what another poster chooses to comment on

You mean you don't like the fact I mentioned it?

Well, no, seeing as I refuted your point and showed why it was derailing.

"I’m not misrepresenting"

Well, when you said that the prevailing opinion on here is that all men are rapists......

It seems quite unbelieavable that the same thing can happen three times to one person in a space of a few hours. It seems quite bizarre actually.

No @BertrandRussell, it sounded wrong. I’m having trouble articulating what I meant. I want to be part of this discussion without getting jumped on. I’m not well today and my brain isn’t connecting with my fingers properly.

Seriously, the amount of shit being written on here @BertrandRussell and you seem to want to pick on me. Have I done something to upset you?

When women say 'male violence against women is a problem' mens reaction is to attack us for saying 'all men are rapists'.

That might be what you heard. But it is not what was said. If you were half as vocal against men who make derogatory comments as you are against women who speak out against them, it would be a start.

goldenclaire your post is bizarre.

"No @BertrandRussell, it sounded wrong. I’m having trouble articulating what I meant. I want to be part of this discussion without getting jumped on"

I'm sorry you're not well. But can't you see that saying the prevailing opinion is that all men are rapists isn't moving the discussion forward?

I had a Catholic boyfriend who said that his upbringing resulted in his not being able to relate sex to love.

Sorry. Didn't think I was picking on you. But you have posted things that need clarification. Like asking women what they are doing about male violence.
But I won't address you again.

Equally, some woman are predatory assholes...it's six and half a dozen.

Oh dont be silly....