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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

17 year old girl walking home sexually assaulted by multiple, unconnected men

597 replies

NoLoveofMine · 13/10/2017 10:15

An absolutely horrendous case in which a 17 year old girl trying to get home on a night out was subject to multiple serious sexual assaults it seems by men completely unconnected to one another. What does this say about society, that different men in a small geographical location within the space of an hour all had such contempt for women and girls they chose to commit these abhorrent attacks on her? It's hideous. I don't usually start threads in this section of the board but I feel so enraged by these attacks and feel more should be aware of this misogyny.

[http://news.met.police.uk/news/appeal-after-woman-sexually-assaulted-by-multiple-suspects-following-night-out-267602]

OP posts:
Original poster
NoLoveofMine · 13/10/2017 11:28

ConsiseandNice Flowers I'm grateful for wonderful parents of sons like you.

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Original poster
NoLoveofMine · 13/10/2017 11:28

Lana I'm grateful for your posts as you're putting so much of what I was thinking after reading this so well.

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LanaKanesLeftNippleTassle · 13/10/2017 11:29

And yeah.

If so many men are lovely innocent souls who would never, ever do such a thing, where are they when we need them??

Why do they do not stand up and call other men out??

Original poster
NoLoveofMine · 13/10/2017 11:30

Bertrand very much so. It's far too many men so all the other men should be challenging the ones who do this kind of thing, the ones who make misogynist comments, sexist jokes, challenge every time a friend of theirs makes a disparaging comment about women. It's all part of a culture which sees us as lesser.

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WomblingThree · 13/10/2017 11:30

@M4Dad, I wish you would say it. Why would it get you banned. Having an opinion is still allowed on here (I hope) and you can presumably back up what you think?

If you say it’s staring us in the face, and yet none of us know what you mean, then maybe it’s something we could learn from? (And I’m not being a bitch, I’m totally genuine).

LanaKanesLeftNippleTassle · 13/10/2017 11:30

Blush Thanks NoLove.

I think the time for beating around the bush and trying not to hurt all those "nice" mens Feelz by being honest about the scale of this problem is over.

BertrandRussell · 13/10/2017 11:31

Would you like me to say it for you, M4Dad? Happy to!

TheSparrowhawk · 13/10/2017 11:31

Both men who raped me were white and British. Anyone who thinks it's just 'foreigners' committing these crimes is a racist idiot.

Not all men commit this kind of assault, but pretty much all men do absolutely nothing to stop them. They just ignore it. IME if you talk to men about assault you get ridiculous responses like the ones here or they simply don't want to know. Across the board they don't ever engage. They just think it's not their problem and they walk on. They are complicit.

TheCowWentMoo · 13/10/2017 11:32

Its clearly not that small of a minority, otherwise this girl wouldn't have been assaulted by three separate men. I know so many men who make jokes about raping women. Huge numbers of men show an entitlement to women and sex, a lower level of misogyny but still there. How many men grab your arse on a night out? 4 or 5 a night? A good percentage of my friends have exs who forced them into sex, or had more violent sex than the women wanted but still ended up having, or had to 'coax' them into sex. My friends might not want to call it rape but to an outsider it sure looks like it.
When I think how many men in the last few years who've tried to persuade me or almost trick me into bed with them, even after I said no, it never ended in anything but these men clearly dont respect women's boundaries.
I remember sitting with an ex and his friends, discussing how a woman cant consent when she's drunk. And the men were almost outraged by the fact they had to be careful when a woman was drunk "how could they possibly no" when I suggested if there was any doubt they should just not have sex, "but then they would never have sex". They were way more concerned about themselves not getting sex than the possibility of raping a woman and there was almost a level of anger about having to get a woman's consent, that was why this man became an ex

ADishBestEatenCold · 13/10/2017 11:32

"I do think it's a small minority of men though."

Do you? Do you really?

I wish you were right, but not only do I disagree, I also think it is a world-wide problem ... a serious problem ... and (sadly) a problem that (at least) half our species don't even recognise as a problem.

BertrandRussell · 13/10/2017 11:33

A lot of the issues women face could vanish by tomorrow morning if men had the will. Instead of wasting time telling feminists that the aren't being nice enough to them.

morningconstitutional2017 · 13/10/2017 11:35

Remember the old days and the attitudes that went with it? Men expected women to be 'better' than they were, not to drink or swear as much as they did, 'don't touch' etc. If they behaved like 'good girls' they'd be respected? Ha, bloody ha. They still got assaulted though didn't they? And the victims were made to feel ashamed as though they were to blame for whatever happened to them.

Now women can be independent, earn more money, have a better education, a career and a family but these assaults still happen.
Most men are decent but indeed, where have we gone wrong? Is it the young and sex-obsessed, porn loving hedonists who do this? It's still unacceptable. I feel sorry for young girls today. Things seem to have got worse, not better.

LanaKanesLeftNippleTassle · 13/10/2017 11:35

They were way more concerned about themselves not getting sex than the possibility of raping a woman

That right there^^^^

430West · 13/10/2017 11:35

Uncomfortable as it is though, it's an unavoidable fact that mass immigration from countries where misogyny is far more tolerated than it is in the U.K. will result in the U.K., on average being more misogynistic than before.

suzy2b · 13/10/2017 11:36

35 yrs ago i lived in stockholm i would walk home across a golf course late at night with no fear what so ever rape was practically unheard of, i recently read that it is now the rape capital of the world and most of these rapes are done by immigrants

Original poster
NoLoveofMine · 13/10/2017 11:36

Exactly right TheCowWentMoo. If it's so few then how were all these men who came across the victim in this case within an hour, all these men who were in such a small area willing to do this? It's hugely disturbing how many saw this as acceptable, even more when you consider one attack seems to have been perpetrated by a man/men in a group.

As you say, rape jokes are commonplace (I've seen so many from boys my age and younger posted online and heard plenty of comments trivialising rape from them), "groping" (which is sexual assault as far as I'm concerned) common at parties and I read an article in which numerous young women said they just expect it on nights out in clubs and wouldn't report it because it's so commonplace. This all suggests women and girls as nothing more than objects for the enjoyment of men and boys and this is how we're seen by too many.

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430West · 13/10/2017 11:37

I'm never entirely sure whether the tide of horrendously misogynistic online porn is cause or effect tbh.

Sorry times we live in though.

TheSparrowhawk · 13/10/2017 11:37

I find that anger about having to get consent really chilling Moo - what men are basically saying is that they put their need for a warm body to wank into supercedes a woman's right not to be raped. And they will genuinely argue with a straight face that it's a terrible thing that they have to be absolutely sure a woman wants sex before having sex, they will make out it is so awful for them - they don't seem to see at all what a horrific thing they are saying (that they would rather rape a woman that not have sex). What they really mean is that deep down they know the woman doesn't really want sex but they want to go ahead anyway and if they have to stop and ask they'll have to admit to themselves that they are rapists because they're going to have sex whether she says no or not.

The conclusion I've come to is that while not all men rape, they like and even enjoy the fact that women live under the threat of rape - they use other men's violence to their advantage. So they don't have to rape (and they can still pretend they're good guys) but they can reap the advantages of half the population being restricted by fear.

LanaKanesLeftNippleTassle · 13/10/2017 11:38

A lot of the issues women face could vanish by tomorrow morning if men had the will. Instead of wasting time telling feminists that the aren't being nice enough to them

It's all about their Feelz innit??

Nasty women saying how men are horrible to them.

We should just not say about how violent men are, because the "nice" boys are getting their feelings hurt, poor diddums.

WomblingThree · 13/10/2017 11:39

@LanaKanesLeftNippleTassle you seem incredibly angry. I’m very interested in what you have to say, but your delivery is putting me off engaging with you.

I won’t apologise for standing by my thinking that it isn’t all men. I also won’t apologise for thinking that stupid misogynistic comments in no way equate to the physical experience of being sexually assaulted. Shouting me down and belittling my (or anyone else’s) experiences isn’t the way to discuss a serious subject.

HoofWankingSpangleCunt · 13/10/2017 11:39

I agree. We need to stop with Not All Men and start again with Too Many Women.
I am horrified that we can't be safe in our homes, our streets, our workplaces, our skins.
If men won't call out the behaviour of their sex then we need to start fucking shit up.
I am so fucking angry right now. We need to get out there, start shouting, perhaps a spot of industrial action. We need to unionise. We need to fucking do something. Now.

LanaKanesLeftNippleTassle · 13/10/2017 11:39

Well said TheSparrowhawk

Especially this-

The conclusion I've come to is that while not all men rape, they like and even enjoy the fact that women live under the threat of rape - they use other men's violence to their advantage. So they don't have to rape (and they can still pretend they're good guys) but they can reap the advantages of half the population being restricted by fear.

That's very inciteful, and a very, very valid (but massively fucking depressing) point.

Original poster
NoLoveofMine · 13/10/2017 11:40

No racist tripe on this thread 430West. This thread is not about race, it's about male violence against women and girls and the misogynist culture which results in them.

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Aeroflotgirl · 13/10/2017 11:42

That is horrendous, what pondlife, I won't call them animals as animals are lovely and would not treat each other like that. I have a 5 year old son, I am trying to teach him how to be kind and respectful. There was a documentary on Monday about sexual abuse in school, and 6 year olds were sexually assaulting a little girl at school Sad.

One would think at that age, they may have been subjected to abuse themselves, or witnessed it at home.

Original poster
NoLoveofMine · 13/10/2017 11:42

I agree. We need to stop with Not All Men and start again with Too Many Women.

Definitely. I only just thought of that today (not saying no-one else ever has obviously) but I think it might make the point well.

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