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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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17 year old girl walking home sexually assaulted by multiple, unconnected men

597 replies

NoLoveofMine · 13/10/2017 10:15

An absolutely horrendous case in which a 17 year old girl trying to get home on a night out was subject to multiple serious sexual assaults it seems by men completely unconnected to one another. What does this say about society, that different men in a small geographical location within the space of an hour all had such contempt for women and girls they chose to commit these abhorrent attacks on her? It's hideous. I don't usually start threads in this section of the board but I feel so enraged by these attacks and feel more should be aware of this misogyny.

[http://news.met.police.uk/news/appeal-after-woman-sexually-assaulted-by-multiple-suspects-following-night-out-267602]

OP posts:
LanaKanesLeftNippleTassle · 13/10/2017 14:34

Oh Ties what a reasoned level of debate!

You haven't answered any of my questions, and tbh I think your obsession with masturbation is pretty odd.

TiesThatBindMe · 13/10/2017 14:34

Youshallnotpass What do you or will you teach your son about sexual gratification?

BertrandRussell · 13/10/2017 14:35

Shan't.

And I agree. A very bizarre and offensive derail. Shall we agree to ignore and move on?

TiesThatBindMe · 13/10/2017 14:36

My obsession as you call it is because I've read so many threads on here with hoards telling people that they are entitled to sexual gratification at all costs. Well eh no. You're not.

BertrandRussell · 13/10/2017 14:37

Youshallnotpass- do you find it's possible to speak out about this among other men, or is the culture too entrenched and overwhelming?

Frequency · 13/10/2017 14:37

Men feel entiled because the whole cultture tells them they are

Exactly. And until that culture changes nothing is going improve. The majority of porn is made by men, for men. The majority of advertising execs are men. Ditto movie and TV producers and government. Men run this country and until those men accept that this is a male problem that only men can fix, women are screwed.

A mother can explain consent and respect to her son until she is blue in the face but if dad, his school mates, the media he consumes and later his work colleagues, all make low-level rape jokes and view women as commodities, what chance does that mother have of being heard?

How many men berate other men for catcalling young women in the street? Or joking about bending her over? I'd hazard a guess that the number of men who do is minute.

NoLoveofMine · 13/10/2017 14:38

Youshallnotpass quite so. At least with your attitudes you should raise a son aware of these issues too.

OP posts:
NoLoveofMine · 13/10/2017 14:39

I think that would be best Bertrand.

OP posts:
pallisers · 13/10/2017 14:39

OP, I read a really interesting article a while back (and wish I had bookmarked it as can't find it again) and its premise was that conservative religion contributes to the problem of rape because of its blanket labeling of all sexual activity as sinful. So it is sinful to masturbate, and sinful to have consensual sex with your girlfriend, and sinful to rape a woman - all sins except the first two are perfectly normal activities and the last is aberrant and abhorrent. But the lack of distinction between what is really bad in sex encourages the rape culture - and the labeling of women as whores/unworthy of any protection as long as they step for an inch outside the "good girl" mode (already seen on this thread). I'm not sure whether it can be really proved or sustained but I do think it is an interesting perspective.

TiesThatBindMe · 13/10/2017 14:39

As for a backstory, I was raped. Black man as it turned out. I was just an object to masturbate with. We didn't have sex. He masturbated into me. His fucking MOTHER came into the room while I was screaming and trying to fight him off and left the room when he shouted at her to leave.

Do I have ishoos? More than Vogue.

Certainly no religious agenda with me as I am a devoted heathen.

LanaKanesLeftNippleTassle · 13/10/2017 14:40

I agree Bertrand very odd and offensive derail.

Let's not engage any more.

GinDaddy · 13/10/2017 14:41

Hi, my first post (a regular reader but compelled obviously to post on this subject).

I'm a dad, married, father of a daughter who just turned one.

I want to give my perspective. it is absolutely and completely NUTS to blame any woman who is attacked by a man. It just has never crossed my mind to, no matter how allegedly "vulnerable" she was in walking down a street alone at night (which should be a basic right).

The fault always lies with men, because we actually have the free will and choice to act. Compassion, empathy and above all respect, are the key to this not happening. It can't be the woman's fault if men have control over their actions. Anyone who victim blames like this is wrong, because they're looking at trying to mitigate the damage, as if victimhood is "inevitable". 😳

An earlier poster commented on the obsession and focus with "getting one's rocks off" to the exclusion of everything else - they are spot on. As a former nightclub DJ I have seen people in clubs bounce from woman to woman, looking for the one they'll have the most chance with, then pursue them, stand outside, follow them while talking, put the pressure on etc in the hope of the conclusion. If more men were raised to realise that consent - proper consent not relentless abusive pressure while drunk - is actually very sexy. Well in my view it is, because despite having had casual partners etc, I always wanted to think that they were 100% in the room because they consciously chose to be.

But I digress. Much of this isn't actually about "rocks off" but is also a power thing NOT sex - a belief that from groping to following to assault, a man has some sort of power over a woman at all times. This is clearly warped and disgusting, and I can't fathom it.

I was lucky. I was raised by a political feminist. I'm attracted to strong women etc. I abhor violence against women, having watched my late father beat my mother for the first decade of my life. However for me it's the "lad" culture that makes a huge problem for our country. I watch Geordie Shore, Ex On The Beach etc, and the culture of "grafting" and pressuring girls, of jumping between women relentlessly until one consents, just devalues stuff and for me creates dangerous areas around respect .

If a woman wants to be sexually confident, this has to be prized and respected - we have to create space in society for this, but I fear we instead have huge issues around male identity.

Sorry if TL;DR

pallisers · 13/10/2017 14:43

I also think that to some extent women and men walk through entirely different worlds, while believing on the surface that it is the same world. I dropped my dd to school today - her school is near a lovely lake (pond) and it is a lovely autumn day here in New England. I thought about doing the walk around that lake but decided it was too early/isolated for it to be safe on my own. My husband would have gone for the walk without thinking twice. Maybe nothing would have happened but I have a radar for risk that he doesn't have - and doesn't need.

Also, last night we were re-watching the West Wing - the episode where the republican woman, Avery, trashes Sam (Rob Lowe) on the talk show. We all laughed at the scene where in the White House josh shouts at toby "hurry hurry Sam is having his ass kicked on tv BY A GIRL" but it bothered me. When would there be a similar scene about a woman having her ass kicked on tv BY A BOY". It is just an entirely different world

LanaKanesLeftNippleTassle · 13/10/2017 14:43

As for a backstory, I was raped. Black man as it turned out. I was just an object to masturbate with. We didn't have sex. He masturbated into me. His fucking MOTHER came into the room while I was screaming and trying to fight him off and left the room when he shouted at her to leave.

And that's horrible and I'm so, so sorry.

But it has nothing to do with masturbation. (or the colour of his skin btw)

It's to do with a fucked up family, and a fucked up culture where it's ok to view women through the lens of sex and power.

Most of the women on here, including myself, have been raped, assaulted and harrassed.

DJBaggySmalls · 13/10/2017 14:46

Blaming mothers for their sons behaviour is a big part of the problem. Mothers do set boundaries for boys and teenagers in the home. Men dont want to think about their mothers when they think about sex.
Porn culture, entitlement and instant gratification are much more fun to think about.

TiesThatBindMe · 13/10/2017 14:47

Oh dear have I offended again by mentioning his skin colour? The previous posters who mentioned white assaulters were not told that it was irrelevant. Just bringing balance to the thread.

Youshallnotpass · 13/10/2017 14:47

What do you or will you teach your son about sexual gratification?

In all honesty he is only 2 so I haven't thought too much about the conversations we will have, we do make a point that he can play with any type of toy and all of his friends are equal to him. I guess as they grow you shape your approach.

Bertrand

It does depend, a lot of my male friends are fairly reserved so don't usually objectify women (at least not in front of me). Sometimes you can speak out but other times it is very difficult to do so, large groups of men after a few drinks etc.

I am aware of how I can be perceived, particularly if out walking at night so I will cross the road from a lone woman etc. I shouldn't have to do this, but I do. This makes me angry - not because of the action I have to take, but the reasons why.

I had a female 'best friend' growing up, I don't know if this shaped my perspective on things.

HooraySunshine · 13/10/2017 14:47

Wormysquirmy Fri 13-Oct-17 14:13:28
There is a large increase in sexual attacks in parts of Germany and Denmark.
I'm sorry to say this but large immigration from countries where the social status of women is lower than that which we enjoyed in the U.K. will result in greater problems for women here.
You can cry outrage all you like but you are naive if you think otherwise. I have German friends whose daughters can't have the same freedoms in their small towns that they once did.
Certain cultures view women on their own and dressed a certain way as targets.
This makes me utterly sick but we STiLL aren't allowed to talk about it.
++++++++++++++++++++++
I agree on all accounts. It's shocking this isn't something more openly discussed. Quietly brushing something under the table will only make it worse IMHO.

TiesThatBindMe · 13/10/2017 14:50

Agree HooraySunshine I hate that we can't discuss the unmentionable.

NoLoveofMine · 13/10/2017 14:54

This racism is unacceptable and another huge derail from the real issue.

OP posts:
NoLoveofMine · 13/10/2017 14:55

Those derailing are being insulting to the girl who suffered these horrendous attacks as a result of what men chose to do.

OP posts:
pallisers · 13/10/2017 14:56

I would just ignore nolove. The derail won't go away if you engage with it.

NoLoveofMine · 13/10/2017 14:57

That's true pallisers, thank you for the advice!

OP posts:
LanaKanesLeftNippleTassle · 13/10/2017 14:57

Youshallnotpass

In all honesty he is only 2 so I haven't thought too much about the conversations we will have, we do make a point that he can play with any type of toy and all of his friends are equal to him. I guess as they grow you shape your approach.

Can I suggest starting with teaching him that it's ok to say "no" to any unwanted kisses and cuddles?
So you know....when Granny/Uncle/Playworker/family friend/ random on the street asks for a kiss, and DS clearly doesn't want to, it's important they understand they don't have to, and don't owe anyone, regardless of who it is, physical contact.

I hate the culture of "oohh go on...give Nanny a kiss".
It teaches kids that personal boundaries are not to be respected.

I think this is really important as a starting point.

If a child learns early on that it's ok for them to have personal boundaries, hopefully they will be able to extroplate this to the fact that other people have boundaries too.

eyebrowsonfleek · 13/10/2017 14:58

Did anyone watch Panorama: When Children
Abuse earlier this week? I could just weep for women everywhere.