17 year old girl walking home sexually assaulted by multiple, unconnected men

[NoLoveofMine]

An absolutely horrendous case in which a 17 year old girl trying to get home on a night out was subject to multiple serious sexual assaults it seems by men completely unconnected to one another. What does this say about society, that different men in a small geographical location within the space of an hour all had such contempt for women and girls they chose to commit these abhorrent attacks on her? It's hideous. I don't usually start threads in this section of the board but I feel so enraged by these attacks and feel more should be aware of this misogyny.

[http://news.met.police.uk/news/appeal-after-woman-sexually-assaulted-by-multiple-suspects-following-night-out-267602]

As most of you are mothers on this thread I presume, and probably half of you are mothers to boys, what do you teach them about sexual gratification? An animal instinct they're entitled to? Or a privilege of a loving relationship. I don't need to guess as to the answer. Mothers of boys are the problem.

Is there any problem on earth that isn't a woman's (ideally a mother's but we'll take any other woman in the absence of a mother) fault. This actually made me laugh it is so fucking stupid.

And after that, I think I'm not going to engage in the derail any further, apologies @NoLoveOfMine.

Going back to the idea about men staying silent or not challenging others for their sexism, what can be done to encourage more men to do this? The number of men that seem to have been silent about Harvey Weinstein is a wake up call on this topic.

Ties what's the thing with masturbation??

For a start - women and girls masturbate too.

I like having a wank, it's great!

But strangely I manage to not do it in inappropiate situations.

As most of you are mothers on this thread I presume, and probably half of you are mothers to boys, what do you teach them about sexual gratification? An animal instinct they're entitled to? Or a privilege of a loving relationship. I don't need to guess as to the answer. Mothers of boys are the problem.

Well for a start what do you teach girls?

Masturbation is perfectly healthy and normal.
It is ok to teach all children, regardless of sex, that masturbating in the privacy of your room is fine.

What is not ok to do.....
Make other people watch.
Do it in public.
Give in to your "urges" whenever you want when it's inappropiate/dangerous.

You teach boundaries.

Sex is not evil.
Wanking is not evil.

Learning when it's ok and when it's not is exactly what all parents should teach all children.
Teach boys (and I do with DS) about boundaries and consent from an early age.

Like teaching kids that it's ok to say "no" to kisses and cuddles whenever they want, even if the person asking guilt trips you or tries to persuade you.
And likewise other people have the right to do the same.
Because then this learned consent can be applied to all situations.

I

Blimey. Is there anything that isn't women's fault?

But who teaches the boundaries? No mother I know.

TiesThatBindMe I agree with Assassinated. Masturbation isn't something only boys or men do and it's not relevant to this thread in my opinion.

Certainly no father I know. They congratulate their virile offspring. It's mothers who could actually turn the tide. Don't rely on a man to do it anyway. You'll be a while waiting.

No need to apologise Assassinated I agree with your points! I wish I knew how to encourage more men and boys to. I've been successful getting my dad and the elder of my brothers to, but I suspect that's only because it was coming from me in the first place (daughter/sister respectively) which isn't great really. I do believe they care now but it shouldn't take a close female relative to make them care (not that my dad was ever a misogynist, my mum wouldn't have accepted that, but just to make him actually vocal).

But who teaches the boundaries? No mother I know.

Well then they are part of the problem aren't they??
But all the mothers I know are perfectly capable of setting boundaries for their boys.

I'm struggling to imagine any parent except the most dysfunctional and fucked up, sitting in the living room going "crack on son- let it all out"

Surely in a healthy household you gently explain why it's not appropiate in public/ to do whenever you want and teach the that they musst do these things in private?

Surely thats standard boundary setting in most houses??

What do you teach girls about masturbation??

Yes, gently explain that he's not an animal. FFS.

Woe betide you if you disciplined him for wanking when inappropriate. Poor little chap. He needs to do it and it's sooooooooo natural.

And here you all are wondering why boys will be boys and take up their natural right to sexual gratification when they feel like it.

Surely if we taught kids about sex properly, instead of making it a taboo thing, a big deal, something naughty, we'd all be better off??

I swear part ofthe problem is making sex into this huge, naughty thing, which means kids don't get taught about the actual issues.

We need explicit education in consent, assault, cat calling, porn, respect in relationships, that coercion is rape, that it's ok for girls to say no to anything at all they don't want.
But also conversely, they need to know it's ok to want sex, it's ok to like things about sex, it's ok to be a sexual person.

There's none so blind as him who will not see.

When you talk about mothers not teaching boundaries, I genuinely cannot get my head round this. I don't know one mother who allows her son to masturbate in public, or father for that matter, is this some secret problem that I've never heard of?

I know a minority of men wank in public in a sexual assault/power/pervy way, but I still don't see the connection of this and lack of boundaries from mothers? Surely these come under the umbrella of sexual predators, and again, I'm not sure mothers have that big an impact on this when society says go ahead, we'll blame your victim anyway?

How about we taught them that sex is not a right.

In my opinion this is a huge derailing from the issue.

Tower Hamlets is a deprived area and has a lot of men with mental health issues and criminal convictions (spent and unspent). It’s not safe for anyone to walk down the street at night, male or female - Canary Wharf’s twinkling lights suggest it is but it’s really not. Nowhere outside Zone 1 in London is. Nothing to do with the men being Muslim (or not). My best friend was raped twice going through a Jewish area, another through a Hindu area, and when volunteered at rape crisis most of the victims were rich women raped in rich areas by the rich white men they knew. London is a cesspit.

London is a cesspit.

These attacks happen on women and girls in villages, towns and cities around the world. The issue is male violence against women and girls not race, religion, class, area or anything else.

How about we taught them that sex is not a right.

Well yeah, that would be good.

But sex and masturbation are not the same thing??

No one here has said that sex, or even wanking is a "right" for anyone.

I certainly don't teach my son that.

Have you read any of posts replying to you??

We of course teach all kids that sex is not a right.
But we can at the same time, teach them it's ok to have sexual urges, so long as you don't force those urges on anyone ever.

"How about we taught them that sex is not a right."

Yes, but to do this society needs to address its role in this, by not victim blaming, by prosecuting rapists and.....by talking about and addressing male violence.

Going back to the idea of getting more men (and women) to challenge and speak up, I think that there could be a much bigger focus on this in a range of spheres - education, parenting, in the media etc. Lots of emphasis that it's not ok to let comments go or to not take part, similar to anti-bullying campaigns I suppose.

Sexual gratification is not a right either. Have some self restraint boy!

Yes OP, a massive derail by a poster who seems to have some issue with masturbation. As well as the usual issues with mothers being responsible for everything. Or maybe just an issue with derailing an interesting discussion of a very important topic.

There is a large increase in sexual attacks in parts of Germany and Denmark.

I'm sorry to say this but large immigration from countries where the social status of women is lower than that which we enjoyed in the U.K. will result in greater problems for women here.

You can cry outrage all you like but you are naive if you think otherwise. I have German friends whose daughters can't have the same freedoms in their small towns that they once did.

Certain cultures view women on their own and dressed a certain way as targets.

This makes me utterly sick but we STiLL aren't allowed to talk about it.

If you look at what happens in a war situation, where there is no restraining power of law or consequences; men commit mass rape of women.
Soldiers in conflict-all cultures and ages, loving fathers and sons-rape because they can. This sadly makes me fear that that desire to subjugate and humiliate women is never far from the surface in a lot of men.