To feel bitter towards DB & parents over inheritance.

[BitBitter]

So my DM was left an inheritance by an aunt of £150,000. My parents are both 65+ and have always lived in rented accommodation. They wanted to purchase a flat. The did not have enough to buy a 2 bed flat in our area even with their savings added. They could have afforded a one bed flat, but I was told "but where would your brother live?

My DB is 45, still lives at home. He has no SN or medical issues (apart from being a lazy git). He never lifts a finger to help around the house. When my father was ill, he didn't help in any way or form. All his previous jobs have been as a result of myself or DM getting him interviews at places we already worked. He was made redundant a few years ago and couldn't be bothered to look for work, therefore he didn't sign on and lived off his savings for 2 years. He eventually got a job after my DM found him one where she works.

As my parents could not get a mortgage they signed all the money over to DB. He took out the mortgage and a loan for the £70,000 remaining on the house. He thinks he'll have paid it off in 5 years.

My Great aunts will stated all the inheritance was to go to DM. However if she outlived her it was to be split equally between me & my brother. I can't help but think if she knew DM was going to do this she would have named me separately for a small sum. I have 2 children under 10 she adored and she often talked of helping us out when she'd gone. .

I am glad DM is still around to receive it. I know it is her money to do as she wishes. But I‘m hurt that she didn't think it necessary to give any future provision for me. We still have a mortgage we'll be paying off for the next 20 years. None of the plans were discussed with me, I was just told that's what they were doing. When I asked if they were planning to gift anything to me or the children so we could put it towards a holiday etc, I was told there was none spare. Yet my father bought a brand new car when there was nothing wrong with the old one. Oh and finally when I queried the fact DB would profit greatly whilst I wouldn't I was told "well you've had free childcare as I've looked after your kids when you've gone to work, Your brother's got no kids (yet) so yours will get the flat eventually".

So hit me MN‘s, AIBU to be bitter that my DB will have a flat worth £270,000+ and I won't receive a single penny.

OP, it’s a shame you questioned them from the angle you did. It might have gone down better if you’d pointed out the implications of this transaction for them? What if they need future care fees? What if they need to move to an adapted or more accessible home? What if they fall,out with DB? How will they pay the £50k loan off and the £70k loan etc etc.

Can you leave it a few days and then write to them?apologise for making it about you. Tell them you appreciate all the childcare they’ve provided (as someone whose parents haven’t given 10 mins of childcare, I know how this is!). But tell them you are frustrated they’ve not listened to good financial advice. They’ve left themselves extremely vulnerable in terms of healthcare, future housing, finances. They’ve given away £150k but have £50k debt when they should be enjoying retirement. Tell them you’re going to make alternative childcare arrangements, because you know you’ve hurt them with your lack of appreciation and because you want to go back to them being grandparents rather than childcare providers. And you want to take the strain off them when they’re about to take on more work. Tell them you love them.

Taylor22 has it. You need to make your parents aware that they have made their bed and will need to lie in it. People can give their inheritance to whomever they please, of course, but do need to understand that certain decisions can bring with them negative consequences. However awkward, you need to explain to them how it’s made you feel. Incidentally I see this happen all the time with ‘useless’ siblings getting rewarded by parents who don’t understand they are enabling their lazy behaviour. Makes me glad to be an only child.

Christ, he 45 years old and still living at home ? What a catch he is.

To an outsider it might not look like that though. He could (truthfully) present himself as the sole owner of a 2-bed property with significant equity and a (relatively) small mortgage.

From that starting point, it's a small leap to him having bought somewhere big enough for his aging parents to move into to give them some security in their old age. That would be an attractive trait to a lot of women.

Inheritance tax laws are designed to ensure there are rules around this. The mechanism through which this happened is important. I am not sure what the amount is in the UK without triggering a tax obligation (it is under 15k in the US) but I am guessing it is not 150k.

It's only £3k in UK. You can carry one year's gift allowance forward and gift £6k the following year, but £6k is the absolute max. However, if the whole estate is under £325k, there is no inheritance tax to pay, so it could be irrelevant.

I'm unsure whether op you've said that you know the db is a lazy sponger but reading down people seem to be really having a go at him.
there are all sorts of reason children still live and continue to into older age with there parents.
is there anyway that he also then thought he was doing a good thing allowing parents to stay in there home by taking on morage.that can be an easy thing to contemplate taking on if you have no job or still living at home.
there aren't many I no who would choose to still be "living off the parents" if they could be happy in there own lives/jobs/homes/familys/

I knew there had to be something lakie. I cannot see the DB applying for a mortgage with his employment history which appears to be limited and nit having to explain the source of 150k in funds. The gift would be looked at. Surely this can't be the chain of events.

OP I can understand completely if you know and don't want to go into detail though. It's very personal info. But if you don't know I would question it fir sure.

I it seems dreadfully unfair, especially to OP's children, but what I find most alarming is the vulnerable position OP's parents have put themselves in.

I'm concerned that there may have been some element of coercion or deception by the brother. It would have been perfectly possible for the mortgage to be taken out in mother and brother's names, but based on brother's income.

I also wonder if the brother was totally honest about the source of the £150k (ie, a gift) and the fact that £50k of the deposit was covered by (presumably) an unsecured loan in the mother's name.

I can't see any reputable mortgage company being happy with that arrangement, tbh.

I wonder how the brother evidenced the significant deposit when applying for the mortgage? When my friend bought her house a couple of years ago, they had to show 12 or 24 months' bank statements to prove that they'd saved a big chunk of money and her parents had to sign documents saying that they money they gave her was a gift and that they would not claim any rights against any property covered by the mortgage.

If I was in OP's position, I would be encouraging my mum to get legal advice and to ask DB to enter into a legal agreement protecting her interests, just in case he gets seduced by some evil gold digger who marries him just so she can get her hands on half the flat a few years down the line.

If the parents have gifted him the money and live 7 years he will not have to sell to pay for care?

DB currently has a job, apart from a 2 year gap after being made redundant when he refused to sign on and look for work, and lived off his savings.
He has been in employment pretty much since leaving school, (albeit in lower skilled jobs which me or my mum have arranged him interviews for). He has never searched for a job of his own accord. He is intelligent, claims he wants to work in IT, but won't even look into attending any courses/evening classes to update/validate his skills. He,d probably be the first to admit he can't be arsed. He's been on holidays without my parents so perfectly capable of acting like an adult when it suits him.
I have no idea what terms the mortgage provider demanded, apart from the fact my parents are adamant that they said I t had to be in DB's name only. .

I don't think you are BU, but try not to be bitter x your parents are being quite unfair I think

Your brother sounds like a total fucking arsehole. Better to be like you without the money than him with it.

this seems to be totally unfair op

I think your eyes have been opened as to your parents behaviour

I believe what the parents are saying. I have had to look at this stuff in the last few years as a parent of adult children buying properties etc. The lenders are very cautious about who goes on the mortgages. Probably the parents had to sign a piece of paper saying the sum paid was a gift not a loan. I had to when I helped my child buy (which was fine - it is and I am glad it is as I don't want them to have to pay 40% inheritance tax on ithe gift when I die in 20 + years time ).

I would always treat the children equally even if one earned or won a lot more. I would still make it all equal as my parents did too and I think that's the only fair way to do it. So here the parents could make the son do a will in favour of the grandchildren say or grandchildren plus any children the brother has in due course (although he might chance his will later). The brother may n ot mind such a will as he has no one else to elave money to as it is. Of course it may be limited to the parents' contribution. Eg if the brother earns £30k and has borrowed £90k then that proportion might increase by even 100% if property prices go up 100% over say 30 years so that element should remain the brother's right to deal with as he chooses.

Yes, he can change his will anytime. Or marry eventually if he likes being looked after. I think I'd write it off OP and be surprised and happy if you or DC benefit in the future.

Bit brothers have been murdered for less. Maybe I'm watching too much Forensic Files.

How are they planning to put a stairlift in? They own the flat, not the building. Unless it's one where the stairs are accessed only by the first floor flat.

I'd also be wondering who they got the loan/mortgage with.

Because a lot of reputable banks wouldn't lend £50K to a 66 year old who works part time with a husband who doesn't work. And who has no assets because she gave away £150K.

And perhaps the brother with his employment history wouldn't qualify for a standard mortgage.

I genuinely hope that they haven't gone to lenders who charge a huge interest rate.

mip Yes they have sole access to the stairs. The Ground floor flat has a separate entrance. Looking at the building from outside you would assume that it was 2 semi detached houses rather than 2 flats.

I would quietly get Dm and DD on their own and tell them you feel excluded and that your db is getting all of the benefits. Tell your parents as they see fit to give him all of the benefits and excluding you then they must feel he will be entirely responsible for caring for them in their old age. Tell them if they believe your db will leave everything to your dc then they need to put that in their own will.

I think we shouldn't complain about the DB not finding jobs for himself though. An unemployed jobseeker with no contacts will never find anything at the moment, whereas an existing employee asking colleagues for a job for their family member may well succeed. That's just the way it is.

The parents don't have anything to leave in a will, apart from the flashy new car. Everything -the house, the inheritance- has been given to OP's brother already. He owns it.

OP , you obviously have benefitted from your mother providing childcare, and it has to be said that this can add up to thousands of pounds. However, I've a feeling that they are going to pay it back three times over - the first time giving all their money to your brother because you had childcare help, the second time caring for your mother in old age because she helped you with childcare, and a third time looking after your father in old age because your parents helped you with childcare.

That's why I would a) sort out childcare , and then b) say to them now that you understand their position, that they see the gift to your brother as a fair exchange given that they helped you with childcare and that your brother will be meeting the expense and responsibility of caring for them in their old age.

going to ask you to pay it back three times over

Could it be the mortgage is in DB's name but parents name is on the deeds of the house?

She can check that by paying £3 to the land registry this afternoon which will show who the registration is in the name of. The lenders usually do not let someone be down as owner who is not on the mortgage though so I woudl be pretty sure the brother owns the house and is soely liable on the mortgage and lives with the parents. If I were the parents I would get some kind of contract with the brother about their right to stay there until they die and make him do a will in favour of your children (and his if he has nay later). The downside with that is that they are reserving a benefit in the house they are living in so if they die before the brother and IF but only if they are over th einheritance tax limit( probably unlikely here as just a flat) then that would lead to inheritance tax at 40% but as I think it will be under the IHT limit we can forget that. So some sort of contract allowing them to stay until they die would be a good idea otherwise he could turf them out tomorrow and move a woman in with him who will then get half the house on a divorce.

Could it be the mortgage is in DB's name but parents name is on the deeds of the house?

No, if you're on the mortgage, you have to be on the deeds as well.

I suspect, after reading what OP's parents said the mortgage provider had said, that the converse applies, too. If a lender had to repossess a property because the borrower defaulted, it would get very messy if the property was owned by other people besides the borrower.

What a catch he is.

To an unscrupulous woman who just wants a share of his capital assets (the flat) he may well be a catch hope03