If a new referendum on Brexit was announced..

[bbcessex]

Would you be up in arms about that?
Discussing last night.. I think given the margins in the last vote and the (being charitable) confusion and uncertainty over the Brexit plans, a new referendum would generally be accepted.

DH (remainer) thinks a re-vote is not constitutional & would cause uproar (amongst all).

Who is unreasonable ?

guilty

If there was another referendum and lets just say it was remain. I personally believe there would be an even larger majority to leave, but lets just say it was remain. Then what?

Do we have another referendum as the decider? A bit like flipping a coin and one of three?

We can not run a country like this.

There was only one referendum we all knew what was at stake, everyone knew the gravity of that vote. Not a single person would have voted carelessly because we all knew what was riding on it.

The vote was to leave, the important focus should now be defining our future relationship with the EU not changing the referendum result to suit some people that remain in denial.

The future is what we should look to regardless of our own views and opinions.

@M4Dad

Are you aware that, before the referendum, Nigel Farage said that if the vote was tight and in favour of remain then we should have a second referendum?

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017

He seems to have forgotten that, since it was leave that won by the defined narrow margin. Was that an anti-democratic suggestion? Or is it only anti-democratic the other way round?

Personally, I’m not in favour of it. I think the only way forward for this country is to follow through and let people see the results of their vote, whether good, bad or indifferent.

I read the actual referendum act and as I recall ( please correct with link if wrong) it said it was advisory.

No mention of turnout, majority - just the question which was of course unanswerably vague. Hence the problems we now face as the choice was stay and suck it up, or throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Are you aware that, before the referendum, Nigel Farage said that if the vote was tight and in favour of remain then we should have a second referendum]

Of course, and if Remain had won and he had requested another referendum that he would have been roundly told to f**k Off. And quite rightly so.

I think the damage has been done.
Nobody expected Brexit to go through since there is no plan and nobody can give a clear indication of how the UK is going to extradite itself and what the medium to long-term effects will be.
I would have more respect for any politician that turned round now and said "Look, this isn't progressing as we want and is proving to be much more complicated. Let's cancel the whole thing and work at getting what we wanted adopted generally in the EU."
But that will never happen.

I believe there are still lies and scaremongering going on in both sides of the media, those very left leaning people who only expose themselves to the left leaning news will be getting the pro remain news and spin, whilst those only reading the mail will be getting the opposite! I do believe leaving isn’t quite as bad as the left wing media is making out, neither do I believe remaining is as bad as the right wing media is saying.
I wish there were actually some real unbiased news out there that could educate us all on the pros and cons but I believe no matter how neutral some claim to be there will be bias in there somewhere!
Another referendum is unlikely to change the result given the recent events and the behaviour of those in charge of the EU.

So if the vote came back 52:48 in favour of remain, how do you decide which result to use?

littlebird - I'm not trying to speak as someone with any answers at all. I'm just saying there is a dilemma here

• calling a second referendum would be setting aside the result of the first, which is politically extremely difficult

• on the other hand, if you have a democratic vote between A and B at point 1 in time, and the answer is A, then you have a load of opinion polls three years later at point 2 in time that strongly suggest the answer would be B, then you have a democratic problem if you don't call a second referendum because the result at point 1 is no longer the democratic one. Which population has sovereignty? The one at point 1, or the one at point 2?

There is every reason to think that the Leave vote will be diminished in 2 years, not least because studies suggest that Leavers are dying out faster than Remain voters. The populations you are sampling at votes that are separated in time are not the same.

Before anyone says "Oh you're just a Remoaner", I do not actually have an axe to grind in the mainstream debates on this issues. I'm just pointing out the political-philosophical issues that this raises.

Little Bird are you taking the piss? I haven't even been paying attention and can tell you about 1400 jobs gone in the last two days.

If a vote was taken on leaving the EU and it was to Remain do you honestly think, now that Article 50 has been submitted that the EU would allow us to just continue under our old terms? I think we would have to join the Euro, join Schengen, etc etc

I believe there are still lies and scaremongering going on in both sides of the media

As far as I can tell there is only one side of the Media. Name me one thing you've seen on the news that is remotely positive about the UK leaving the EUssr?

Bertrand Yes I know and you keep repeating the referendum was “advisory” as well. Only you didn't answer my question : “Whereabouts in the EU Referendum Act does it state that the result would be 'non-binding and advisory'”?

@wholly father

fullfact.org/europe/was-eu-referendum-advisory/

ginuser

It is up to us isn't it. It can be a disaster or it can be a triumph.

Why would you cancel the democratic wish of so many people? It would cause anarchy on the streets for sure. Either you haven't thought through the true implications of your comments or you need to sit and read through history for half an hour.

We have the opportunity through brexit to change our country for the better if we choose to, and maybe it is better to accept the result and find a way to make it work for you.

@M4Dad

My point, was that he’s very loudly rejecting the idea of a second referendum, after originally calling for one himself. To my mind, that illustrates that it’s not a straight forward issue or right vs wrong.

Where as I don’t personally want a second referendum (for the reason I already stated), at the same time I do recognise that it’s not as black and white as you’re painting it.

For something to be qualify as anti-democratic, it needs to curtail political freedoms. I can see your side of the argument, but I can also see the side of the argument that questions how a vote can be anti-democratic since it’s a democratic act in and of itself.

There was an interesting programme on C4 the other week which was a discussion/debate with a room full of remain voters.

Interestingly it was only the older members of the audience that were talking about wanting another referendum, stopping it etc and the younger members were mostly talking about just getting on with it.

My point exsactly DAD, I assume you get most of your news from the BBC and guardian?

@littlebird77

It’s not up to us though, is it. That couldn’t be further from the truth.

What exactly are you doing to make a success? Apart from spending 5 minutes in a polling booth to put a cross on a piece of paper, what has your contribution been to making Brexit a success?

The reality is, that it’s in the hands of politicians, who we all know don’t necessarily have the best interests of the country as their chief motivation.

I’m sorry, but all this “we’ve taken our country back”, “we need to make it a success” talk is utter nonsense. “We” have the power to do sod all.

Have another ref knowing what we know now? Which is what exactly? How on earth can we have another ref mid transit stage?

I am happy to have another ref in 20 years time when we are out of the EU and by then we will know, are we faring well and thriving, or did we need the EU after all.

Only then can we tell, we know absolutely nothing right now

Guilty

I too am not a die hard of any description and can see arguments on both sides.

The young have not experienced life outside the EU so of course they will have many more reservations than the sixty five year old lady whom remembers very clearly how the UK used to be. The youth remainers are yet to experience this, so it is easy to see why the younger voters feel the way they do. I would also point out that they do not fully understand the impact of mass immigration will have on their future. I would have seen life the same way as them at nineteen without bills, mortgages and issues with school places, no doctors available to see your sick children etc. The point is that their outlook is completely different, and it will change as they grow older and their priorities change.

“Whereabouts in the EU Referendum Act does it state that the result would be 'non-binding and advisory'”?

I’ve already given you the answer to that in my post at 9.37 - that there was nothing written into the EU Referendum Bill requiring an action on the outcome of the vote.

Only you didn't answer my question : “Whereabouts in the EU Referendum Act does it state that the result would be 'non-binding and advisory'”?

Some posters only ask questions, they do not, answer them

The young have not experienced life outside the EU so of course they will have many more reservations than the sixty five year old lady whom remembers very clearly how the UK used to be

And who have parents who are die hard remainers making them shit themselves about it, like finding out the world wasn't flat , parents wailing and crying in play grounds screaming " you all killed my children" ...no the young in those houses are not going to feel too optimistic.

leavesinautumn

I agree with your post.

Lets have another referendum in twenty years and decide then. The young voters can experience life without the EU and will have the opportunity to vote as fully fledged adults with jobs and responsibilities.

The country can see how it works after brexit, and we can see clearly the economic outcome, and voters can make a decision based on actual experience.

If the EU is still here in 20 years time I think that would be a good compromise.

those very left leaning people who only expose themselves to the left leaning news will be getting the pro remain news and spin

every single day more miserable brexit news from the guardian every single day! no wonder some people who only read their bible feel so miserable about it all.