If a new referendum on Brexit was announced..

[bbcessex]

Would you be up in arms about that?
Discussing last night.. I think given the margins in the last vote and the (being charitable) confusion and uncertainty over the Brexit plans, a new referendum would generally be accepted.

DH (remainer) thinks a re-vote is not constitutional & would cause uproar (amongst all).

Who is unreasonable ?

*who their local

And again.....

You might vote for a party but you would be wrong to do so. In a representative democracy you vote for a..... (drum roll) representative. Not a party.

You 'know' this in the same way you 'know' the EU is totalitarian and undemocratic; by 'know' you mean 'don't know' and ' have no real understanding of'.

This clearly elucidates the problems of referenda. People vote with no understanding of the issues or the process.

"Most people vote for their chosen party first, you know this, everyone knows this"

They may do that. But that is not how the system is intended to be used.

You 'know' this in the same way you 'know' the EU is totalitarian and undemocratic; by 'know' you mean 'don't know' and ' have no real understanding of'.^

It 'feels' like it must be totalitarian and undemocratic. Therefore it must be.

Its all about feelings v facts which is the referendum in a nutshell. We still haven't progressed or moved on from that.

Its also probably a consequence that within the EU we have to compromise politicially which is something we are not terribly good at nor are taught by our political system to do. We don't understand the compromise and our history with the Empire doesn't exactly help that mentality.

I some local elections when faced with a list as long as your arm, with names of people you have never heard of, then yes, I would tend to vote for a party.

For a General Election - most definitely not.

I dont know

I dont know why the EU is undemocratic

And mousse explained why it isnt and m4 just keeps saying 'you know' or asking questions

I would just like it explained why it isn't....democratic

"Most people vote for their chosen party first, you know this, everyone knows this"

So people think voting for their party is more important that leaving/remaining in the EU. Seems quite a vote in favor of a successful brexit

The bottom line is, it's a layer of government we simply do not need.
I understand why those tiny countries linked by land borders may think its a great idea, for all sorts of reasons but the UK is not like them and doesn't need it.
People keep stressing its democratic its this its that. We are dealing with a corrupt organisation just like any other. We have enough issues as every electorate does keeping tabs of our politicians, I cannot fathom how anyone thinks we can do this when they are so far removed from us, why have another layer of obfuscation? Why.

Our history with empire's? wow you must know some very old people red I find the older generation are more au fait with the terrible fate of the eastern block, millions of people's lives ruined in pursuit of totalitarian ideals, lives crushed and ruined, the cold War, the iron curtain.. I find it's people who remember that horror, whose minds are set against yet another huge massive impervious block.
But wow, if you know people who remember empire, please pass on their secrets.

The last British colonial territory finally achieved full independence in 1980.

It's too soon to be talking about a second referendum IMO (Remainer - but only by the skin of my teeth). The Brexit negotiations have been messy and chaotic so far, they will continue to be messy and chaotic as unprecedented "firsts" generally are. Until we are able to get a better idea of what our final Brexit deal will look like a second referendum wouldn't work and I actually think the same result would occur FWIW.

I think it's more likely we end up in a harder than softer Brexit because PM may seems to understand the fundamental motivation behind the leave vote victory - immigration control. Yes there's many who talk about national sovereignty and taking back control but at the end of the day I think it's always been about immigration and since May gets this, she will feel unable to compromise on ending the free movement of people which equals a hard Brexit.

LeavesinAutumn
We are dealing with a corrupt organisation just like any other

What evidence do you have for this? Or like M4 do you just feelz this? I feelz it is undemocratic so it must be. I feelz it is corrupt so it must be.

It is corrupt like 'any other' organisation. Which ones where? Who? When? Produce the evidence? Or do you just feelz it?

This thread sums up the whole debate facts and evidence versus feelingz.

Peregrina
I would tend to vote for a party

You make your decision based on party politics but in UK first past the post elections you vote for an individual.

The public's inability to understand what they 'think' is not always right is a major stumbling block.

I voted remain but am fed up with all this fannying about! We can’t change the result so I just want it sorted now! I know it takes time but come on?

Why would you have another referendum when the vote was a clear (if not substantial) majority in favour of leaving?

What do remainers want? To keep having repeat referendums until they get the answer they want?

Remainers want to avoid an economic disaster for the sake of all, leavers included.

Moussemouse , I think you misunderstood me. As an active member of a political party in General Elections I most definitely know who I voted for, but in some elections e.g. the Police Commissioner one was the prime example, we had no information whatever sent by any of the candidates, so we hadn't a clue who was standing, and one option then was to vote by party. One friend was so incensed by the whole business that she wrote an essay on what she thought was wrong with that particular election. Not that anyone would have read her diatribe - It would still go in the spoilt pile.

In town council elections we tend to get long lists of people, most of whom you suspect are paper candidates anyway.

In our last local council elections i couldn't find out who the Tory candidate was until he had been elected. And that was with hammering the internet - no signs, flyers, response from the parties...

The council is hung so it isn't even as if any candidate is a safe seat. Very odd.

Big things happening in negotiations. Barely any coverage in right-wing press.

[[www.facebook.com/JonathanPieReporter/videos/1358069034315986 here][

oops

What evidence do you have for this? Or like M4 do you just feelz this? I feelz it is undemocratic so it must be. I feelz it is corrupt so it must be.

the EU has several times not respected the results of referenda, and/or pressured countries to "ask again".

One of the harshest examples of this is the greek bailout referendum, whereby the greeks rejected the bailout, but the greek government ended up accepting a harsher bailout. Of course, the EU can say that they are dealing with the greek government, not the greek people. Interesting move for an institution that claims to prize democracy.

habenero20

The issue was corruption not do you agree with what they did. The point raised was that the EU was corrupt - please provide evidence.

You make a point that you disagree with a decisions they made. Fine. But that does not mean the EU is corrupt or undemocratic. Or are you suggesting that if one country has a referendum all the other countries have to change policy?

You make a point that you disagree with a decisions they made. Fine. But that does not mean the EU is corrupt or undemocratic. Or are you suggesting that if one country has a referendum all the other countries have to change policy?

It's undemocratic because it went directly against a referendum.

Not sure what you mean about every country having to change policy. It was a bailout. I don't know what policy you are referring to.

Or like M4 do you just feelz this? I feelz it is undemocratic so it must be. I feelz it is corrupt so it must be

Do you want to discuss EU accounts and the remarkable way the hardly ever get signed off - or do you just want to make very weak efforts at mocking me?