If a new referendum on Brexit was announced..

[bbcessex]

Would you be up in arms about that?
Discussing last night.. I think given the margins in the last vote and the (being charitable) confusion and uncertainty over the Brexit plans, a new referendum would generally be accepted.

DH (remainer) thinks a re-vote is not constitutional & would cause uproar (amongst all).

Who is unreasonable ?

Surprised that people are still arguing it wasn't an advisory referendum. This isn't something that's up for debate- even bloody Farage has said that it was as has the Supreme Court.

You can look at Hansard for the debates around the referendum bill- there were various occasions when MPs tried to have protections inserted (eg that we should need a super-majority, or minimum turnout, or majority in each of the nations). In each case the proposals were rejected on the grounds that no such protections were needed as the referendum was merely advisory.

Of course, you could argue that MPs should feel obliged to act on the results of the referendum- that's a different Q entirely. But they are certainly not bound to do so.

Surferjet-are you still "walking on air"?

It was voted for as the union as a whole not separately.

The result from a union that many of us from the north of Ireland (I won't speak for Scots, but some of them clearly feel the same) do not recognise, after a campaign in which our issues were ignored, and that has undermined our right to have our Irish identities recognised and upheld by the British goverment. And that's before even going into the greater impact on the impact on all NI communities, socially, financially and politically, and the likelihood of a resumption of violence.

Dearlittleflo

Would you be as thrilled if your political party that you voted for won by a small margin in a General Election but they disregarded the result out and called another one? There'd be uproar and rightly so.

I wish there was another referendum. I'd vote to stay as I did in the original referendum. I also have friends who voted leave who have changed their minds now the lies have been exposed.

Having said that, we would be even more of a laughing stock so I know it couldn't happen.

Littlebird

Er, firstly, I am talking about British citizens living in continental Europe- not in Singapore - as this is what Brexit is about!

And I am fully aware of most of the issues besetting the UK thanks very much because (a) I am British and my family live in the UK (b) I am back and forth to the UK at least once or twice every three months - my dh is back and forth once or twice a week (b) I listen to Radio 4, BBC news, am a fully functioning reasonably intelligent adult who doesn't live in a bubble! And where I live in Europe is closer in distance to most parts of s. and midlands of England than many areas of Scotland!

And I don't happen to subscribe to the view that the pressure on housing, gps, education and issues surrounding immigration can all be blamed on the EU. These are largely national issues as will become clear when these difficulties do not magically resolve themselves post-Brexit.

Finally, I am emphatically not happy that my daughter may not have the same opportunities to work and study abroad that my generation had.

What a dull and sad world it would be if everyone stayed in their own little pockets and didn't experience life and work in different countries and benefit from the exchange of knowledge and culture that those experiences can bring. And yes, that includes the ability to have a little humility and learn from countries that happen to manage things a little better than we do currently. After all, most comparable EU countries manage to have transport systems that work on time, and good health care provision, working conditions, social provision etc.

the result from a union that many of us from the north of Ireland (I won't speak for Scots, but some of them clearly feel the same) do not recognise

It's utterly irrelevant if you recognise the Union or not to be honest.

I think we need another referendum, make it legally binding this time and fully expose any lies told during the lead up to it. I would fully accept the result of this.

However, I know it's never going to happen. TM is too stupid to go down this route and she likes the result of the first referendum. I don't believe for a moment she's a remainer.

The issue of immigration is one of many reasons why people voted to leave. To say otherwise is untrue.

I do not think it is unreasonable for an unoccupied country to decide its own immigration policy, to decide on its own laws and make its own decisions about borders and security and for those decisions to be based on the current needs and requirements.

You will find that many many other european countries feel the same. Austria, Sweden, Poland, Hungary, Switzerland are in the same position.

No one wants the rise of the far right. This is why we have to act now and listen to the millions and millions of people saying we want some control over our own borders in our own villages and towns.

For me immigration is not an issue, but I understand why it is a pressing issue for others.

Finally, I am emphatically not happy that my daughter may not have the same opportunities to work and study abroad that my generation had.

Why do people keep saying this as if there's no such things as visas and that before the EU and after the EU we will never ever be allowed to step foot in or work or live in Europe?

MIP, well, GEs are binding and the Referndum wasn't. But that aside, no of course not, and I completely agree that Leavers will feel cheated and that it would be harmful to our democracy. But to me it's still better than the alternative of leaving with no deal, which would be both a travesty of the referendum result (given the proportion of people who voted Leave on the basis that it would be positive or neutral to trade and/or that it would mean increased funding for the NHS- neither would be the case in a no deal outcome) and would cause massive economic damage. As I say, we're screwed either way.

The least harmful outcome I can imagine at this stage would be to stay in SM/CU and introduce the same immigration controls other EU MSs have (3 months to find a job etc). This would both protect the economy and reflect the close result of the referendum. Obviously it would be worse (IMO) than staying in but better than leaving entirely, esp without a deal. But noone seems to be advocating for that.

Littlebird the UK had the opportunity to place more controls on immigration and chose not to.

see here.

No one wants the rise of the far right. This is why we have to act now and listen to the millions and millions of people saying we want some control over our own borders in our own villages and towns.

Good lord. If we don't bow to bigotry we face fascism? Am I reading this right?

especially for the plebs and rural areas outside the hubs, who voted leave.

How dare the plebs vote the wrong way!

sandy

You certainly will not get a balanced simply by listening to radio 4 and the BBC! I would say you will most definitely get a biased view from both. As both are staunchly against brexit and have made no effort to hide the fact.

You are not actually living here. So hearing second hand is not the same. In order to vote you can not simply rely on hearsay.

Hospitals, schools and other infrastructure such as housing supply are not simply national issues as you have said, because it is impossible to plan effectively for the millions arriving.

The infrastructure is struggling because there are too many people using the services. It is putting a huge strains on communities and services. So for you to simply say it needs more funding or organisation (copied from other EU countries of all places) is simply insulting.

No amount of funding is going to be enough.

It is a bottomless pit.

Most other european countries are not offering free health care to the extent we do in this country. Hence the health tourism, feel free to look at the billions that are lost to the citizens of this country. It makes for sickening reading when we have homeless families living in B&Bs for years on end.

Our children will still have the same access to cultures and experiences that they had before, it changes nothing. For those fortunate enough to have gap years or careers that take them overseas, of course this will still happen!!

Brexit may in fact result in many more alliances and options for the children of tomorrow.

Brexit is in fact inconvenient to you personally no doubt, and creates uncertainty but you also have the option of moving back and you are very lucky to have that option.
I think we will have to agree to disagree on the benefits.

I think there would be uproar if there was another referendum but on the other hand I would quite like one.

I employ approx. 250 worried EU workers. I can't get UK citizens to do the jobs (trust me I've tried), so I'm genuinely worried about the future.

They are worried about their futures also, and therefore are reluctant to start training programmes and apprenticeships we are offering them as they don't know whether they will be here long term to complete them.

Trust me when I say the food industry is very worried!

I think you will
Find quite a few “hubs” outside London votes leave! Are they all plebs too?

I think a referendum once we know the terms of a deal- or know that there will be no deal- is fair.

Mia

I understand your concerns, I understand the worries for the future of an Eu national, but there will be a supply of labour if it is needed from somewhere even if it is not the EU.

Alliances with other countries will be made if the EU can not/will not compromise on trade and the rights of EU nationals/British nationals. I think you will find that many people would love the option to work here from Australia and NZ and lots of other commonwealth countries whom up to now have had to jump through huge hurdles to get jobs and visas here. My guess is that this will change.

I can see no end to any of this! the Neverendum.
I can see it happening though, it was even mooted on the day after the vote.

Mia , have you tried offering them a living wage? Or are the employees you have willing to work for less than the average U.K. Person needs to survive? There are some job sectors that need eu workers, the NHS being the number 1, however making a sandwich should be simple enough for anyone!

Missionitspossible because as an EU it is currently possible for anyone who is an EU citizen to go and live in a second EU country and live and work there and have broadly the same rights as the citizens of that country.

Of course post Brexit you will still be able to travel but work will be subject to restrictions (it won't be a right) just like for all other third countries - so you will have the same restrictions like an Australian or American living and working in the EU now. And (we don't know yet) there may be special taxes imposed on expats, pension restrictions, higher student fees, restrictions on owning property. There is currently lots of damaging uncertainty surrounding these issues, but generally speaking it is generally agreed that it is going to be more difficult and cost more!

Mutmad - I do pay them more than the statutory minimum but I can't pay them anymore than I do otherwise we'd be out of business. Raw materials are going up all the time and customers won't pay any more.

uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-economy-food/eu-worker-exodus-threatens-uk-food-industry-some-leaving-already-survey-idUKKCN1B32Q1

I love the idea of a second referendum I have decided.

In twenty years time is just about right.

When we have all experienced life outside the EU and can see the benefits versus the negatives. We will see the economic results and have a balanced and educated view.

Only then will we know the truth.

So I am writing to the PM with my request. Hopefully the die hard remainers will be happy with that option, and if the EU is as wonderful as they all say we will all see the error of our ways and rush to sign up again, this time maybe signing up to the euro and become a fully paid up member. Why not?