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Original poster

Grandfather slated 12 year old girl

176 replies

littlebird7 · 10/10/2017 13:17

My sister has just been here sobbing.
I have never seen her so angry or upset, she could barely breathe and I am feeling really choked for her.

She was at my parents house and my df whom suffers from mild depression took it upon himself to rip into my niece whom is 12 yrs and very quiet and sensitive girl at the dinner table.
He commented on her weight, her hair (said it was greasy, it definitely isn't, she just styled it differently) he said he clothes look second hand from a charity shop (she was wearing ripped leggings which are fashionable these days) and said she was stupid and dumb. I am not sure how my sister got out of the house without a serious fall out, but she called me last night and has been here today, she is so distressed I don't know what to say to her.

I have since called my mum and she confirmed that it all happened, and she was crying and saying she thought df was just joking. Clearly this just isn't funny. My niece is mortified and wounded and refusing to see him again, she was already scared of him before as he has a temper and keeps screaming at the family dog. At this age you have to be so careful about eating disorders etc. She is really skinny already and def does not need to lose weight.

What can I say to my sister, my mum, should I speak to my Dad? My sister has just been through two major operations and has another one coming up, she has quite a few serious health problems. This is the last thing she needs. Any advice please - thanks

OP posts:
Theresamayscough · 10/10/2017 20:05

Very true op and if I may say so a very brave post and good for you. I hope you and yours flourish without this malevolent influence in your life.

Original poster
littlebird7 · 10/10/2017 20:08

Thank you theresa

I feel raw and exposed, although I know I am not, I am safe. I just feel I have said so much, having never uttered a word in all these years.

OP posts:
Haffdonga · 10/10/2017 20:10

Why has your dm suggested an apology to your dsis not to your dn ?

If your d f sent a really genuine apology to your dn and admitted he was just trying to hurt her deliberately, would she be able to process it better without internalising his criticism? (I am not suggesting you or your dsis don't cut contact. I'm sure your dn needs to see you do that too.)

2littlemoos · 10/10/2017 20:11

I am so glad with what you have decided to do OP.

My dad sounds very similar. Once the gc became "teens" or started to have an "attitude" or resemble and young adult he couldn't handle it. He stopped treating them as children. My mum would tell us she would leave but never did. She was too far gone. He did some awful things and is now deceased but who he was will stay with me forever and I am glad he passed whilst my DC were very young and so I didn't have to decide to go NC as they became older.

You are doing the right thing.

Theresamayscough · 10/10/2017 20:13

Keep posting keep talking and don’t be afraid to let it out and own your feelings and feel how you feel.

You and your sister are bloody awesome.

Theresamayscough · 10/10/2017 20:18

Haff

He ‘apologised’to the dsis bevaude ste has control over whether dn sees him or not.

He wouldn’t apologise to DN as that would allow dn to have some power over him.

He can’t allow that. She’s his next ‘victim’

Haffdonga · 10/10/2017 20:26

Yes I get that cough . I suppose I'm just suggesting that if he was genuinely sorry and is wanting to apologise (which of course he's not and isn't) the person who deserves and who could benefit from the apology is dn.

Perhaps a written (email) apology to dn via dsis (so she can check for appropriateness first) would be helpful for dn. And then still go NC

TooManyPaws · 10/10/2017 20:36

Can someone point me in the direction of the Stately homes thread, please? I've seen it mentioned several times but never been able to find it.

Op, my father was never physically violent but he destroyed any self esteem I ever had and had an utterly terrible temper which only had a leash on it when non-family members were present. I have no ability to cope with criticism or anger, and have a history of self-harm. Please follow this through and keep your children from this man. ❤️

Travelator · 10/10/2017 20:44

No, my nieces are not okay. One of them has already been sectioned and is no longer in contact with the family. The other niece has no self esteem, is incredibly vulnerable and desperate for love and approval. She has a crap group of friends who consistently treat her like trash but she still craves their 'friendship'.

I said when they went to live with my parents that they shouldn't but Mum was insistent.

I feel so nervous writing all of this. It feels like my Mum is going to know what I've been saying (which she might as she sometimes reads MN). I still feel guilty talking about my parents like this.

This is where I'm messed up. I struggle to maintain friendships because I feel like the poor relation. I'm not as good as anyone else etc. I'm desperate to talk it all through and yet can't because if I go into it too deep it takes a long time to come back and feel normal again.

Other than this I'm okay whereas my siblings are not: long term addictions and very serious mental health problems.

Anyway, this is not about me. Keep talking to your sister and support each other. If you can't go totally NC then keep as far away as possible and never allow a situation like that to happen again.

MySecretThread · 10/10/2017 20:48

OP, before your Dad exploded at your niece had you and your sister discussed his behaviour with your kids? My Dad is not abusive but he is an 'interesting' character. He is very irresponsible and has done lots of criminal and questionable things. We've always been open with the kids about what we think of him and make it clear that although I definitely love him I think he's an absolute pillock.

I know in your case it's very different as your father is clearly abusive but I think it ok for your kids to know that even though you are sure that you want to go NC that you are also very sad about losing your Dad. IYSWIM

InsomniacAnonymous · 10/10/2017 20:50

TooManyPaws the most recent Stately Homes thread is here, but as you will see from the opening post, they've been going for 10 years.

TooManyPaws · 10/10/2017 21:02

Insomniac - thank you.

InsomniacAnonymous · 10/10/2017 21:20

You're extremely welcome, TooManyPaws Smile

Theresamayscough · 10/10/2017 22:04

haff

Yes of course and get you and see your point.

Theresamayscough · 10/10/2017 22:08

Travelator

You are every bit as good as anyone else and clearly better then lots Flowers

AcrossthePond55 · 10/10/2017 22:16

Honestly, I wouldn't want my child to have any contact with this toxic man, apologies notwithstanding. She needs to understand that she is 1000% not to blame for anything, that what he said is absolute bullshite, that she never needs to be around this nasty man again, and that her mother and extended family all intend to see that she isn't.

To allow him to 'apologize' to her is to put her in the position of feeling responsible for the 'peace' of the family and for his 'feelings'. She's not old or mature enough to understand that she needn't accept his apology if she doesn't want to and that there are actually some things that cannot be apologized for. She'll feel accepting his apology is the 'right' thing to do regardless of what her mum and OP tell her. I daresay there have been times each of us has 'accepted' an 'apology' from someone we really wanted to tell to fuck off just because we felt we 'should'. And we're adults! Imagine the self-pressure on this 12 year old child who is no doubt aware of the situation. No, this is one time the mother must stand firm and keep that flaming sword between her toxic father and her innocent DD!

TheLegendOfBeans · 10/10/2017 22:21

Oh he's in control of his nastiness, no dementia or other here.

He's waited until she's "old enough" to rip into her so he doesn't look like a total bastard ripping into a child...just a pre teen, yeah?

Bastard.

ringle · 10/10/2017 22:22

I feel worried that your niece won't understand the reasons for the rift. As a young teenager she will tend to think it's about her.
I don't disagree with the analysis on the thread at all. But the discussion is quite sophisticated. How should this be explained to niece?

At very least I think she needs to know she is not the only one treated like this....

I say this because it has taken me so many years to find the words to describe my own family's dynamic.

Lottapianos · 10/10/2017 22:39

'i daresay there have been times each of us has 'accepted' an 'apology' from someone we really wanted to tell to fuck off just because we felt we 'should'

Oh yes indeed. And it's a self esteem shredder. Your feelings simply don't matter because it's all about keeping 'the family' together. I was over 30 at the time. It still took me years to stop blaming myself

kootoo123 · 10/10/2017 22:49

He hit you and you allow your own children near him??? Wtf.

WellThisIsShit · 10/10/2017 23:01

You're facing your demons (or should I say, demon), all at once and when you weren't expecting to. No wonder you feel raw and exposed.

It brings back all the feelings we had when we were children, and had no power to keep ourselves safe, and no way of saying 'this is wrong, it needs to change'.

You and your sister are being such strong and brace women. You should be proud of yourselves and each other.

You are stopping the destructive cycle roll down to the next generation. It shows you are strong enough and love your daughters enough to say no! And stop it, right where it starts, right now.

Your dc won't be damaged by him in the way you both were. And you've learnt not to be like your mother, and let weakness and brokenness take over. That's a great thing you've done.

Your DD's will learn that they are worth fighting for, defending. Unlike what happened to you when you were younger. And as someone said earlier as grandchildren, they are one step removed and it really helps give them a protective layer between their horrible grandfather and them.

You're doing everything right. You're both being brilliant.

WellThisIsShit · 10/10/2017 23:23

My childhood was similiar, but opposite in that it was my mother being abusive and my father complicit & downtrodden.

I found my feelings were much more complicated towards the parent that stood by and let the abuse happen. It took ages before I realised they weren't worth idolising in the way I grew up doing. And that it was both parents fault, not just the one. Both were responsible and both weren't 'good' parents because of that.

I actually protected my father from my mother, and deliberately divert her vileness onto me in order that my dad could escape her anger. Now as a parent myself I realise that was all sorts of wrong, as my father let me do that from a very young age (like, 7yrs old).

Imagine your own child having to step in and take the abuse herself to protect you. He would give me a grateful smile and slink off. Wtf?!

Ouch! No parent comes out well out of that do they?

In situations like this, the child is damaged because no one is protecting the child, and roles are reversed, with the child becoming the grown up, except of course they have none of the ability to control their environment or relationships like a real grown up.

It can leave people with a sense of powerlessness to change things, even when they want to. You haven't fallen into this trap and that's great :)

justilou1 · 11/10/2017 07:03

Do you understand that your mother saying that you would be removed if you mentioned his behaviour to anyone means that she was complicit? Her enabling him makes her an abuser too. I get that she has been worn down by him, but at some stage you look at your kids (like you have been doing) and make the choice to allow it to continue or to stop it immediately. She confirmed that she heard him say these awful things to your DN but she said NOTHING! I know you love her, but her soggy attitude is not going to change. I suspect that you will find yourself dragged into problems between her and your father if you see your mother without him whether you want to or not. Also, it may very well be that this is exactly what he wants - her to himself.

Your parents sound almost exactly like mine, and the comments he made to your DN gave me flashbacks to my father belittling me - and then losing his shit at my divine little girl when she was two. He NEVER did that again. My father had very few redeeming features and looking at your father's selfish behaviour, I suspect you are feeling the same way.

guilty100 · 11/10/2017 07:16

"Do you have any suggestions on ways to make it easier?"

Yes. Speak to those who have been through it as well, and look for an outlet where you can discuss what happened to you and come to terms with it (counselling helps). Here's a good starting point:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3009327-But-we-took-you-to-Stately-Homes-survivors-of-dysfunctional-and-toxic-families

One caveat: ou don't have to listen to any of the advice on here if you don't want to - everybody has their own way through this, and those ways can be very different. Some people are very prescriptive about what you should/shouldn't do, but there is no one rule for everyone.

user1482573375 · 11/10/2017 07:52

See your mum, but see your dad as little as possible. Sounds like my dad, I never leave him alone with my son. He suffers from depression, Asperger's etc. My childhood was crap. I see him and help him. He's much improved from when we were kids, but still not normal.He has said things about my son to me which I have dismissed as his s**t stirring.Your mum, like my mum, will always take his side. Don't let him abuse his grandkids the way he abused you. Take care