Grandfather slated 12 year old girl

[littlebird7]

My sister has just been here sobbing.
I have never seen her so angry or upset, she could barely breathe and I am feeling really choked for her.

She was at my parents house and my df whom suffers from mild depression took it upon himself to rip into my niece whom is 12 yrs and very quiet and sensitive girl at the dinner table.
He commented on her weight, her hair (said it was greasy, it definitely isn't, she just styled it differently) he said he clothes look second hand from a charity shop (she was wearing ripped leggings which are fashionable these days) and said she was stupid and dumb. I am not sure how my sister got out of the house without a serious fall out, but she called me last night and has been here today, she is so distressed I don't know what to say to her.

I have since called my mum and she confirmed that it all happened, and she was crying and saying she thought df was just joking. Clearly this just isn't funny. My niece is mortified and wounded and refusing to see him again, she was already scared of him before as he has a temper and keeps screaming at the family dog. At this age you have to be so careful about eating disorders etc. She is really skinny already and def does not need to lose weight.

What can I say to my sister, my mum, should I speak to my Dad? My sister has just been through two major operations and has another one coming up, she has quite a few serious health problems. This is the last thing she needs. Any advice please - thanks

[Aeroflotgirl]

I would tell your dm, that apologies are not enough, your ds wants nothing more to do with him.

[littlebird7]

guilty100

Yes I agree completely. He will tear one of the other dc to shreds at some point if it is not dn it will be one of the others. We will all be waiting for his next victim, and again yes playing into his hands of controlling behaviour. Like he with us. He would choose a child after a day in the office and that child would be punished violently for his bad day.

My mother did stand by and allow this, so I am not sure why I expect her to do anything else this time around..

I have just called my dm to tell her, she went completely silent on me and was clearly hoping I would 'talk some sense' into my dsis, well that isn't going to happen, over my dead body.

[Lottapianos]

You and your sister are handling this really well. You are both quite right to have reacted the way you have, and to show your niece that you absolutely will not stand by while she has to listen to abuse like that.

I know you love your father OP, despite his disgraceful behaviour. Feelings can't just be switched off at will. However, you also know that he has crossed a huge line and you will not have your niece subjected to the kind of crap that you grew up with. You're absolutely right to be massively concerned about eating disorders. Your poor niece, although luckily she does have adults around her who are able to protect her and put her needs first

Your mother is absolutely his victim here too, but she is also an adult, who has choices to make. It sounds like she's in denial though, and in minimising mode. It's so difficult, but your first loyalty is to yourself. I wish you strength for the days and weeks ahead. You are absolutely doing the right thing

[Aeroflotgirl]

Your mum enabled the abuse, she did nothing about it. that is just as abusive. I would have a family Christmas all together without those people in it. You have your kids to think about, what if your dc was next in line for abuse.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Time to make a stand now op, you and your siblings united, presenting a united front, you are all strong against this nasty bully and his accomplice. You don't need them anymore, they just bring misery to your lives, and now its starting to affect your dc, please don't put them through that.

[0ccamsRazor]

The only way forward is to keep all of the dc safe and go nc with him, both your family and your dsis family.

He will not stop.

He will escalate his abuse targeting the dc.

He choses to behave in this manner.

for you, your dsis and family.

[LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett]

my mother once warned us that we would be taken away if anyone found out

Think that through for a second. Your mother knew that what was going on in your home was bad, bad enough that she thought you'd be taken away from her.

Now do the same for your DN and all the other children involved.

Take them away from him

[Myrobalanna]

My grandfather did this to me, only rarely but he'd call me a bitch, comment on my appearance, rant at me for not appreciating poverty. He was never a very nice man but dementia made everything much worse. He was really proud in one way (he loved his grandchildren as much as he could) and capable of being abusive in another. I don't know what the answer is, it's very hard. Your poor niece.

[littlebird7]

When you are actually preparing to cut someone off properly, and this is what I am going to do, and it is someone that I love like my father even if he is undeserving of my love. Do you have any suggestions on ways to make it easier?

I am going to do this, not just for my dn but for my dc too, and because this is a very long time coming.

Can you share how you managed the separation?

I wish I didn't find it so painful but I hate falling out with anyone and I am not good with confrontation (probably because of him ironically) I am sitting here thinking will I even see him again before he dies from old age/other illness and it is a daunting prospect. Perhaps I am over thinking it and should just take a day at a time?

[Viserion]

My father's behaviour is very similar. He was violent to me as a child. He is vicious, narcissistic, misogynistic, bigoted bully who thrives on making other people feel shit about themselves. My adult relationships are completely screwed up as a result of how he treated me growing up and was far worse once I reached puberty.

My mother suffers from lifelong (not formally diagnosed, but obvious) depression, comfort eats, hoards etc as a reaction to his treatment of her. She tried to leave him 20 odd years ago but bottled it and ended up staying.

I refuse to take my sons to their house and only see him on neutral territory with other people around to police his behaviour to me. He is now in his 80s, still tries to bully me, but is now just an irrelevant old fool who gets ignored most of the time.

[Mittens1969]

Your mum needs to fully acknowledge her part in enabling the abuse to continue. She’s guilty, too, it was a terrible thing she did, telling you to keep quiet about what was going on at home. She definitely put him before you, sadly.

I’ve been able to forgive my DM because I’ve accepted what she’s said, that she didn’t know. It was because she wasn’t around enough, and even when she was there her mind was on work. She has accepted that she knew that he smacked us too hard though.

She’s also been thoroughly apologetic though, that’s why we can move on.

[Verbena37]

I wondered too if it’s the onset of dementia. The fact he hasn’t said anything to the grand children like that before in 12 years, it seems a bit strange he starts now.

Dementia can start off as insulting behaviour and angry etc
Perhaps it’s worth getting your dad checked out with the GP.
Or may he have been on anti depressants and changed his meds’ which may have made him more agressive?

[Viserion]

I went with one day at a time. I haven't consciously refused to see him, although I did go 3 years without seeing him at one point. This was the time when my mother tried to leave him over his treatment of me. But because she didn't, in his mind, he was right.

I just stopped phoning home, put the ball in my mother's court to stay in touch, told her she could call any time and visit whenever she wants, preferably without him. Before I knew it, I hadn't seen him in over a year, hadn't spoken to my mother for 6 months. My life is much calmer this way. I may even get off the antidepressants myself one day.

[eyebrowsonfleek]

You and your sister are doing the right thing. You can’t let abuse ruin the kids generation.

I am NC with my physically and emotionally abusive mother and my Dad her enabler. I am very proud that her abuse hasn’t affected my kids. They know that I don’t see my parents because they are abusive but no ideas about the details thank goofiness.

Write down why you are going NC. When you feel yourself sad or wavering read the words out aloud. What he said to your niece is beyond disgusting and abuse escalates. It could be your kids next. Don’t accept the apology. That gives him permission to do it again and again. The kids need living adults to step in and those adults are you and your sis.

[GrockleBocs]

We stopped seeing FIL after he started his act on our dc and DH finally realised that his sense of duty was to his dc. Actually there was a row and we were thrown out which was his choice. The rewriting of history has airbrushed that out but DH was very firm. It's always sad and like you we aren't a big family but it's healthier to have 5 people who love you than 1 who hurts you.

[GrockleBocs]

Verbena - Did you read about littlebirds childhood etc. This isn't new.

[IHeartDodo]

Hello!
Afraid I have no specific experience, but when I make a hard decision that I know is right, a helpful thing can be to write down all the reasons. Then later, when you're wavering, you can come back and read it.
So you might write down the problems with your father (being an abusive bully), how it made you feel growing up, and that you don't want this to happen to your kids. And that he's shown what he's capacble of by the terrible way he's made your neice feel. (write down exactly what he said and how upset she was).

[Verbena37]

Yes Grockle, I did.
However, the fact that he hasn’t been derogatory to the grand children before suggests something has perhaps triggered his change in behaviour.

[flippinada]

Just to say littlebird I think you and your sister are handling this really well. You're letting your DNeice know that she's believed, supported and not at fault which is a powerful message to send. In also sorry you and your sister had to put up with such abuse growing up from your father

I was subject to similar by a close family member at the same age. As PP have pointed out, it's no coincidence that puberty is a tipping point. Best of luck to you all going forward.

[Aeroflotgirl]

verbena this perfectly within his character, and sounds like something he cannot control anymore. Op has a duty of care towRds her children and her, first and foremost. Good on get to have the strength to do that. I woukd go and see him or call him to tell him and why! Yiur not that scared little child anymore, yiu are a strong woman standing up for herself!

[GrockleBocs]

And perhaps that's dn not being a 'child' anymore and fair game. The dog and the dm have been getting it all recently rather than OP. He hasn't ever stopped.

[flippinada]

It may well be that he does have dementia, but really that's neither here nor there. If he does, all it means he's an abusive man who has dementia.

[ShiveryTimbers]

Nobody stood up for you and your sister when you were children, but look -- now you are both standing up for your niece and your children. You are breaking the cycle of abuse, and showing them that they deserve better than this.

I know it will be hard to go NC with a parent who you love, but perhaps you can also consider it an act of love towards the child who you once were. As well as showing your own children, you are showing yourself that you deserved better too.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Exactly Flippinada, it may well explain his behaviour, but does not excuse it, does not mean people have to tolerate it, especially coming from a previously abusive adult.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Op make a list of things he used to do to you all as a child, and keep them near, like somebody said upthread, as a reference point, in case you waver. This will help you to break the cycle, and see that his behaviour and that of your mum, was not of loving parents. That she enabled the abuse and minimised it, that makes her just as responsible. This cycle will continue on your children, it already has! You said, that he will move from one gc to another!